How To Make Your Podcast Profitable with Jenny Suneson

Diane: Hey, this week's guest is Jenny sun isn't is a podcast launch, strategist and manager, and the host of semi podcasting for entrepreneurs. She helps entrepreneurs grow and launch their podcasts. Hey Jenny, welcome to the show. Jenny: hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm super stoked to be here Diane: This is feeling kind of meta that we're going to talk about launching or growing podcasts on a podcast, Before we get there, let's start with a little bit about your business and how it's evolved Jenny: yeah, so I guess just starting from the very beginning, I'm not going to be too long winded here, but I did start as a social media strategist. That is what I got. I didn't get my degree in social media strategy, but I got my degree in marketing and then kind of evolved from there. And then. I was working corporate started side hustle, you know, all that stuff. And then I did social media management for about two years, and then I realized, yeah, this is not really what I wanna do anymore. So I actually got, like, I was doing VA work too. When I got a VA client that was like podcast management. I had never done it before, but at this point I had had my own podcast. Right. So I was like, Hmm, this sounds interesting. Like, I have a good process for myself. Let's try it out and see how it works. And then I really fell in love with doing that. And I fell out of love with social media and interests. So I kind of just made this pivot back in June of 2019. And I had started my business in. Kind of like June of 2016. So a couple years later I was like, Hey, let's, let's make this big pivot. So that's what I did. I kind of burned my business to the ground and started from scratch essentially. Cause I had only had experience with that one potty ass client at that point. And then, you know, I was like, I want to do this, so let's make it happen. So I slowly started getting rid of my social media manager clients and then bringing on more and more podcasting clients. And that's kind of where we are today. And now I have a team of. Five people, including myself. And I just kind of made this transition from social media management to podcasting officially in June of 2019. So a year and a half ago, really? Diane: And for people who are listening, who maybe don't have their own podcast, what does a podcast manager do? Because I think they'll probably have a good idea of what social media manager does, but maybe not podcast manager. Jenny: So basically, I mean, it really depends on the person. Some people do just like editing and show notes or whatever, but for us, it's we tell the client that you hit record and we basically do all the rest. So we do the the show notes, the editing, the marketing, the. All that stuff, all every little thing that you need to do after you record your episode, we take care of that. They just basically have to drop it into the Google drive file. And then we kind of go from there and not every client does the marketing aspect most of them. just do the editing, the show notes, the posting, all that stuff. And I do have some clients that do the marketing aspect as well, where we actually post from them on social. A podcast manager basically just takes your episode that you created and gets it out into the world so that you don't have to worry about it because it is a time-intensive thing. If you're doing it all yourself, especially the editing portion. Diane: And so when someone comes to you and they're like, Oh, Jenny I'm want to launch. Podcost what is maybe the number one misconception that people have at that point about podcasts? Jenny: but the main one is that is a short term. Like leave injection into their business, or it's a short term strategy or whatever, or they can like grow it overnight, basically anything to do with rowing it. They think it's going to happen quickly. And most of the time, that's not the case, unless you have a really. Large and engaged audience. Most people are not going to get Joe Rogan downloads in their first year or even ever really. So that's a really big misconception that I see people just think, okay, I'm going to start this thing. And all of a sudden, it's just going to be super big and have all these downloads and have all these raving fans. And that's just typically not the case. There are some outliers, but typically that is, that's not how it works. Diane: So do you encourage it for people as a cold traffic strategy or more as a someone's kind of aware of you and it's more of a warm traffic authority, bold. Jenny: I think it can be both, honestly, but regardless it is a long-term strategy. So you want to use it kind of as a warming hut for your current people and any new people to you and use that to build that authority, build the know like, and trust factor. And then from there they feel. Like they know you, they hear a voice every week, so then they feel more willing to invest in you further, whether that's with your freebies and joining your email list, or also, you know, joining your paid pro programs and services as well. So it, it is it's, it's good for both. I mean, obviously at first it's going to be a lot more warm people coming in and then. Once you utilize growth strategies to grow your podcast, and then you'll start getting more of that colder traffic and people who they don't know you, but they come to know and love you and become a rating. Yeah. Diane: I think the thing that really drove home, that kind of long term approach or thought process around podcasting was actually strange enough listening to a podcast. And somebody was talking about how they pitched podcasts. You know, they've been on multiple episodes of people. And the very first filtering criteria that they had was they have to be a hundred episodes of the show. And the reason that they gave was that so many people start a podcast thinking it's a short term experience and burn out or get frustrated that they haven't had results and give up. So if you're giving somebody time as an interview, you want to make sure that that episode is there for people to reference for. A longer time. You don't want them to suddenly decide the next episode they're done with you. And for me, that was such an eye-opener because I've only been going since September, 2020, but it still feels like I have been doing this for a long, like, it feels like I've grown leaps and bounds in that time. And then to hear like, I'll come up on 50 episodes around when this is Eric. And, and then only halfway to kind of his, his limit sort of thing. I think for me, that was a really like eye opening moments of like, yes, you have to be thinking far down the road. Jenny: right. Yeah. That's very, very true. Diane: There's a lot of work that goes into a podcast. I think even if you are working with someone like you, and all you're doing is recording that still mental effort. It's still making sure that you're sharing what you need to share. If you're guest interviewing, you're doing research and making sure that you show up, there's a lot of effort, a lot of energy and a lot of time that goes into it. And we want to make sure. Especially in a lifestyle business that we're getting some bang for that time back. So if we need to do this and we need to be sustaining it for a long time, and the bang is in growth and celebrity and fame and sponsors knocking on our door for our 10,000 downloads an episode, then how do we get that return? Jenny: If you are a podcaster, that is a business that is where you can utilize it to share your products and services. And I don't approach it in the typical way of Hayden. You know, whenever you're launching something, just mention it, you know, like, cause that typically doesn't convert as well as you would think you would think, Oh, well, these people have been listening to me for months and months and months. Now I'm talking about this paid product. Yay. I'm going to have all these science for my podcast and that's not necessarily the truth. What I found is that whenever you share free offering, so say you have a free challenge, a free workshop, a free download in some capacity, something free to get them. Further acquainted with you and they will join your email list essentially. And then from there, then they'll join your paid programs. But most people are not going to be like, Oh, I heard about this thing on a podcast. I'm only like on the sixth episode that I've ever listened to. Now I'm going to buy this paid product, unless it's something like that, they absolutely need like a hundred percent and they haven't seen anything else like it in the market. And it's, you know, a good price point then maybe. But. Really it's about warming those people up, getting them on your email list and then, you know, being able to sell to them down the line. That is just kind of where it works because people aren't going to sit there and type out a they're going to type out a URL or go to your show notes and click something. For a paid product necessarily, unless they like are obsessed with you. And they've been listening to you for years and years and years, but like as a whole people just aren't going to do that. So really utilizing that strategy to get people on your MLS and continue nurturing them is kind of how I always recommend that you are able to grow your income with your podcast specifically. Diane: I think it's important when you think about a podcast to remember that most people are not at their desk with their credit card in their hand, I guess. It's a big enough ask to ask somebody to go to the show notes page. But the orphans to go to the show notes, page, click a link, and then try to remember their credit card number while they're walking the dog. I can see why that breaks down. how do we use a podcast episode to move people to a resource that you have available? Without it feeling like the whole episode is like all about get on my email list. Jenny: That's really important. And there's really not like one right way to do this. I think it's about what feels good for you. When you're doing it at the beginning or the end, people typically will like hit the little. Fast forward button. When it's in the middle, it's like, Oh, okay, whatever, it's going to be quick. I'm already listening. So might as well just like do it. At that point they're already just like, okay, I'm listening. Like I want to pull out my phone to hit this button. Cause it's in my pocket when I'm walking the dog or walking my baby so I think that is kind of how I approach it. I like to always recommend the middle, but I mean, some people feel that's too abrasive. You can kind of play around with it too and see what works best. Like, Ooh, this one that I had the ad in the beginning actually converted better. If I tracking your data and using you know, pretty euros and things like that, so that people can type in this nice. Easy to remember URL, but you also are able to track it better than kind of leading it back to your normal, typical URL for that free me. So you can kind of see, Oh, it looks like this episode seems to have gotten a lot of traction to this freebie pool. Maybe I'll. Continue inserting it in the middle, or maybe it's not getting a lot of traction, so maybe we'll try another freebie that you have that is going to convert better it's just really about kind of playing with what you're going to do based on the data that you see from the downloads Diane: and based on what you see with your clients, with all the podcasts that you're managing with your own podcast, is there a type of lead magnet, freebie resource? That converts really easily from a podcast because it's quite a big OSC, you know, like you said, if somebody's walking the dog, they've heard the URL, but their phones in their pocket, do they really want to have to get it out to then go to that URL? They might remember it later, but they might not. Jenny: I think like masterclasses seem to do well and challenges from what I've seen. But for me, my podcast launch checklist gets downloaded so much because people are like, Oh wow, this is like everything I need to actually launch. Like all of the step-by-step information I need to do that. So it really depends. Diane: Are you of the school of one overall? Lead magnets that you talk about all the time, or are you the Amy Porterfield blog theory of lead magnets, where you create a new one every single week to go with that week's episode. Jenny: No, definitely not. So I have, for me personally, I have three that I promote and I kind of just switched them up every episode. I have two that are about launching a podcast and then one that's about like mistakes you're currently making with your podcast. So depending on the content of the episode, I'll promote one over the other. So if it's about like, should I have ads on my podcast? Like at that point you probably already have a podcast. So I share the mistakes one and if it's like, How to, you know, launch a podcast and how many episodes do you need when you first launch? That would be like one of the launch freebies. So I kind of switch it up based on the episode, but I don't have a freebie for every episode because I is overwhelming. And you know, who has time for that? Amy Porterfield has a huge team, so she has the capabilities to do that, but the average person doesn't. So I recommend having, One or two, maybe three that you share. And then if you have like a masterclass to we could also like do two in one. So you could do like your masterclass in the middle and then you're like free downloaded or like vice versa. Diane: So if people are looking to grow their podcasts, to make sure that they're getting that return on investment, that they're looking for, that bang for their buck, where can they find out more? How can they get started profiting from their podcast? Jenny: So I do have a free resource. That is my podcast. I release every single week. It's called savvy podcasting for entrepreneurs. But I do have an upcoming summit called the profitable podcast summit. Diane is actually participating in it. Definitely check out her presentation and there's a mix of so many more. There's like there's topics on how to lunch, how to book amazing guests. There's some about like actually running a podcast agency is one of them how to know you're ready for a podcast manager. That's just a couple of the different things that are going to be talked about at the summit. So definitely make sure to join us. It's going to be the February 1st through the fourth. So next week there's so many good things going on. I have like a bunch of exciting things that I'm going to be doing too, in addition to all the presentations dropping. So make sure to go check that out. You can just go to profitable podcast, summit.com and I'm sure Diane will link everything if you're not available next week, you can upgrade to get the recordings and notes . I hope to see you guys there, this is like going to be the hub that you need to go, if you want to start your podcast or just continue improving on it Diane: I know some of the other speakers, I had a lot of fun doing mine, so definitely make sure you attend and then hit us both up in the DMS. Tell us what you're learning. Tell us if you've got questions. So Janie, before I finish up, I always ask a couple of questions of my guests. First up. What is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Jenny: Okay. I used to be a complete workaholic before I had my son. I used to just work 24 seven. I didn't, I didn't really, I mean, not that I was neglecting my husband, but. It wasn't as bad yoga. I was like, you're an adult. You can take care of yourself. And now I have my son, a big boundary for me is really just being able to spend that time for him. So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I only worked during his nap time and at night. I'll maybe I'll send an email here and there when he's awake, but I try not to work when he's awake, because being able to spend time with him is kind of the reason why I started my business So that's a big boundary for me. People are typically pretty understanding. I work with a lot of moms anyway, so they kind of, they get it. So that's really my big lifestyle boundary that is actually kind of new in the past six months before then I was like, Oh, I'm going to work all the time. That's fine. Diane: Yeah, I think they definitely grow and evolve. And I think when you do have to put that new boundary in place, I always say to people think of boundaries as you teaching somebody how you would like to be treated. So if your boundary is I only work Tuesdays and Thursdays, then don't be answering calls and emails on Mondays and Wednesdays. Because you've then taught that person that even though you said you weren't available, you actually are. that becomes even more interesting when that boundary didn't use to exist. And now you put it in place and suddenly you're going, okay, I have to reteach you. What now works for me. But I think, like you say, you're just being super open and super honest about, Hey, this is the reason nobody is going to expect to be a priority over your Jenny: Right, right. And it's not, it's not, and it's not to be an excuse. Like, Hey, I didn't respond because my child, like, it's not using hands as excuse. It's just reinforcing that. Hey, like, yes, I ha I don't have childcare on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, so I may not respond because, you know, it's all dependent on his nap schedule. Diane: Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entrepreneur? Jenny: it's to podcasting and just business in general, but it's like when people tell you that you have to do it all, because there are people who are telling you, Oh, you need to be on YouTube. Oh, you need to have a podcast or you need to have blocks, or you need to be on all these social media channels. To me, that's really not the best use of your time. And I used to try and do all the things. I didn't have a YouTube channel, but I had a blog. I had a podcast, I was on all of the social media channels and trying to utilize them. And the best way that I possibly could. And I got really burnt out, you know, it was just one of those things where it was like, okay, now you need to figure out what channels your people actually hang out on. And you also enjoy them. And. Stick to those. So then I, nixed my blog. I don't really post, I have show notes, but I don't actually post like, Separate blog articles. And I really only focus on Instagram and then Pinterest is my other one, but that's like more of a search engine, so it's not really social media. So I really just kind of niche down to that. And I think that is important, especially now as a mom, like, I don't have as much time as I used to I'm, you know, I'm not working 12 hour days anymore. Like they used to, and that was by choice. But I was like, I had to get rid of something. So I kind of Reevaluate it all my priorities and did that. And I think, I think that's something that a lot of people have to learn at the beginning because they are told, Oh, you need to be doing all these things when they try to do 20 things. And then obviously that doesn't work out because there's only so many hours in a day and you can't keep up with all the things. Diane: there's definitely a lot of pressure to be everywhere and seem to be doing everything. And also to be seen, to be doing it really well in a really well lit well maintained environment. You know, when the reality is, most of us are crawling on a bed and throwing our here up into like a messy button and, you know, maybe changing from our night. Pajamas into our day legging pajamas, you know, I think sometimes people need a bit of a dose of reality. Thank you so much for this. If people have questions and they want to have the conversation with you before we dive into the summit next week is Instagram the kind of best place for them to Jenny: Yeah. Yeah. Instagram is my best channel. You can definitely feel free to DM me. Let me know if you had any takeaways from this episode also, you know, from the summit, if you have any takeaways, feel free to DME. Handle is just Jenny Sanison. I always love chatting with people and it's always nice to hear like that someone heard you on a podcast because they, especially the women. That's what I do. It's like, Oh, cool. You know, it works. I mean, I know it works, but it's nice to get that confirmation. Diane: Yeah. It's, it's always super interesting to hear somebody else's take on maybe something you said as well, you know, to get that back and forth. So I definitely encourage the DMS. Do you have Jenny DME? Ah, Jenny, thank you so much. So many, so many questions answered for me. So many ideas coming to me as you were speaking as well. So thank you so much for being here. Jenny: Yeah. Thank you for having me.