Creating A Grown Up Message For Your Established Business With Wendy White

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Diane: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, I met today's guest, Wendy White in a networking session where she very kindly listened to me waffle on about what I do for far longer than it should have taken me. When she invited me to her challenge, I was skeptically expecting the usual I help X do Y that we're taught over and over and over again from day one in business. But Wendy blew me away with her ability to make introducing yourselves something that you're actually excited to do. So I had to have her on to talk about how to do messaging as an established business owner and how we can go beyond I help X do Y Hey Wendy. Welcome to the show. Wendy: Thank you so much. I am thrilled to be here and I love that you do a great intro. Diane: So let's start with, what would be your official intro if you were like at a networking event, how would you introduce. Wendy: Absolutely. If I were to do a really short and sweet one, I would say I'm Wendy white messaging, strategist for coaches and consultants who are ready to become thought leaders. I help them to confidently communicate what they do and why it matters so that their sales and marketing impacts a greater audience and brings in their truly ideal clients quickly and simp. Without that Rube Goldberg marketing machine of doom that we're all convinced to do. Diane: I love that. So tell us a little about your. Beyond the official intro. How did you get started? Where did it all Wendy: Where did it all start? Well, I was a we type, no. Diane: Back when I was born Wendy: I'm. Diane: I started talking at aged 18 months. Wendy: And I haven't stopped since exactly. No, I I, before I got in line in 2014, I spent over a decade in international sales and marketing for small unknown businesses in the us, in Latin America and in Europe. And then in 2014, I took this expertise online and quickly got into helping entrepreneurs specifically with business coaching, cuz that had been my background. And then about a year into doing this, I realized that I looked around and realized that everyone, I knew everyone who was in the courses and everything they couldn't. Say what they did. And it was like this huge angst, like, [00:02:00] you know, you've heard it before. I'm so good at what I do. When I get them behind closed doors, I can work magic, but I just can't seem to figure out how to communicate that. Diane: Hundred percent Wendy: and it's true. They couldn't. And so I started working on this their message and no one was really talking about message. At that point, everyone was obsessed with the marketing, you know, build the website and build the funnel and, you know, game the algorithm and do the hashtags and, and all of this stuff. And I'm like, okay, great. Well, I get why we're doing all of that, but what do you want to say and who do you wanna say it to? Cause until you sort. The rest of this is just like lipstick on a pig. You know, we don't know who we're building the website for. We don't know who we're trying to reach on social media, who knows what hashtags will reach them, cuz we're not clear on who they are and we still don't know what you wanna say. And so I started really drilling in on messaging. Diane: Yeah. I think the, the problem comes in that you're trying to teach people when, when you're Nubes it's that I help X do Y right. That's what you're taught. And it's so terrifying even to come up with that little statement, which should actually be really easy, because when you're at that stage, you don't wanna niche down. You're still in that I help every. Wendy: Do all the Diane: With everything. Right. And so I think that's why people avoid messaging, hoping that the rest of it will just kind of come to Wendy: Magic. We work out Diane: Right. And then we kind of grow into our business and we're still, we've maybe created our, our help X, Y, right. Because you can't really grow your business without at least figuring that piece of it out. But I get to the point where I listen to some people like, you know, I love a good networking meeting and I listen to a lot of people who tell me that they help X, D Y, and they sound so bored. Like the pitch is kind of monotone. It's really rote. It's like, I've been saying this for like four years. And I'm [00:04:00] not actually even thinking while I'm saying it. That's the vibe that's coming at me. And so it's still valid. They do still help X do Y. How do we know when it's time to be like, okay, we need to revisit this. We have a lot of things on the to-do list messaging. We tend to go, it's not broke. We're not fixing it, but it feels to me that there has to come a time when your business has grown up a little, that you need to prioritize it again. Wendy: Honestly, it needs to be prioritized from the beginning. It is something that you need to do from the very beginning, but it doesn't go away. I mean, I've had clients I've worked with who are 14 years in 10 years in, and they are not being specific enough, clear enough in any of their messaging and their intro is one place. And the great thing about working on it at that place is, you know, a lot of these things, as you said, when you're starting out, you wanna help all the people with all the things. And there's a lot of. Convince people. No, really. That's not what you want to be saying at this point, but you're a number of years in and you already are like, I've, I've niched down. I really know my sweet spot. My people, all these things, you know them, but you're still not saying them. And you've probably gotten beyond that fear of, I'm trying to say all the things to all the people you just don't know how to now articulate what you actually do. And I would say in answer to your question, how do you know? I mean, if you're bored, when you say it, we are bored. if you get lost, if you're talking in your intro and you get lost, we got lost. So if you're feeling that it's definitely coming across, Diane: And I think it's like we grow and develop and pivot and change our offerings and change how we serve people. And, it almost feels like there's this pride and I have never had to change my message. I have been saying the same thing for like 12 years. like, Well, did you not develop at all as a human being? Do you not think differently about what you do? For me, my intro when we met was me kind of waffling on about , I help like established CEOs and teams and, was more a list of like how I helped all of them, which every now and then I forget. And I go into that and I can see that I lose people right when I go into the waffle. So my [00:06:00] post Wendy challenge intro, I have two of them. I have I partner with online CEOs to develop low maintenance teams for high performing business. Wendy: love it. Diane: Or I partner with online CEOs to develop low maintenance teams to run the day to day so they can focus on the next big thing. Wendy: Love it. Diane: And so I can tailor that. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? I tend to change my messaging slightly, depending on who I'm talking to, I would feel really weird saying one of those two things to one of my personal life friends, like not a work friend, because I don't have a one word answer for those people. if I waffled that at them, it's not really gonna make me memorable to them or. get me any referrals. So how many intros can we have? Wendy: so guess what you're doing is the correct thing. One of the basic roles of sales and marketing is there is no one perfect way to present yourself to everyone on the planet all of the time. So stop looking for it, let it go. That's ridiculous. As you said, it doesn't make any sense. They would, even if you were, even if you were Facebook ads or a salesperson, you could say I'm a salesperson to your friends or to anybody. And that still tells them pretty much nothing. so even those people need to say more, but absolutely you're always gonna change what you say depending on the audience. I mean, that's just common sense. Take it outta the business context. You would introduce your SA yourself the same way as a person to. You know, a four year old and you know, your husband's grandmother and, you know, your potential new boss. I mean, you just wouldn't. So, what I'd like to do to make it not too crazy complex is do things by building blocks. And then. You can play with those building blocks. Once you've really gotten clear on what are the building blocks is your introduction. And you've got a sense of, what's gotta go into each one, then play with them because you don't wanna be saying the same thing as if by wrote every single time, particularly, you know, we're in a networking group together. You go in every two weeks and introduce yourself the exact same way, the exact same 10 people they're gonna start hating you or, or, you know, as people do, [00:08:00] you know, Mentally checking out and checking their Instacart list. So you need to keep it fresh and keep it interesting. But I think having those building blocks allows you to play with them. Rearrange the order, once you get comfortable and swap in different things. So I love that you have those two and they're saying slightly different things, but tailored to the people you're speaking to, which is absolutely perfect. And I think all you do to figure out how much you need is just keep practicing them out loud, over and over and over again. And as you do that, you'll be like, oh wait, what if I said this tiny tweak different differently. And you'll be entertained by that for a few weeks and they will be entertained and you'll settle into a rhythm. Does that make sense? Diane: A hundred percent. I, I love to test out a slight change here and there to see how it feels often for me saying it more than for how it's received. Right? Like I kind of have my building blocks that I know need to be in there, but then I'm looking at like, how can I say that in a way that it still sounds like me and not robot Diane, who has learned this off by heart and is now reciting it to you with words that she would never use in her Wendy: my God. So key, it's it. It's it's you speaking, presenting you, it has to sound like you and people say, well, how do I say this? And I'm like, well, how would you say. I mean, it's not about my words. I don't have a bucket of your words over here behind my shoulder. Like, what are your words? How would you say it? And if you don't know, try saying it and I always suggest you say everything out loud. To yourself a few times before you say it to other people. Cause sometimes things we write down, look really clever on the page and you go to say them and you're like, like, crap. I really didn't tried that before I, at one point I was working with someone and we decided that busy, busy business owner was a clever thing to write. It was a clever thing to write. It was a sucky thing to say Diane: Right. And all the like alliteration and the like cuteness that we like to put into our like clever copywriting when you're right. When you say it in a conversation, you just can sound really put on. So [00:10:00] yes, I know that the listener is like screaming. What are the building blocks? Ask her what the building blocks are. Before we veer off into a different topic, I just wanna make sure we get those. What are the building blocks we should think about in our Wendy: Sure. Well, when I think about the intro and I'm thinking about a really, really basic intro, like the one I did, the one that you did really, really tightened up, and these can be expanded on, you know, if you've got more time, you can go deeper on things and you can talk longer, but the real basic building blocks, or it's not rocket science, it's what you think they would be. It's describing your client. It's describing what you do and it's describing yourself. So a client description. A description of what you offer and then your title. And I will say right now about the title that the title is, the place that I have seen most coaches and consultants spend the least time. Sorry, spend the most time for the least payoff. I don't know why people are obsessed with getting the perfect title and they go there to die. So if there's one thing I could say right now at anyone listening is stop it. stop it. Two words, your title will never be able to encapsulate everything that you are and do so stop trying. walk away. Diane: I mean, I always say if I have to use a title, I say like business strategist, team strategist. I think what's interesting in, in my Nick of the words is. Do I say, I'm a coach. If I'm not act, I'm more of a consultant. This is like my internal monologue. When I try to name , my job title, I'm like, but I'm not only a coach and I'm not only a consultant and I'm not only a mentor. I'm all of these things and it doesn't sum it up. And then you use the word strategist and people are like, I don't really know what that means. Wendy: Bingo. Diane: for me, I'm a strategic partner for who I work with. And so I encapsulate that with I partner rather than Wendy: It's exactly what you said. You could say, coach consultant, expert, strategist, guide, Sherpa, whatever the crap you wanna say. No [00:12:00] one knows what you mean with any of those and your, and looking for a better version of that is not going to change that. You know, it, you could be like consultant. Exactly, exactly. Explains what I. But I'm gonna need more than that. So it's all the rest of the words that actually tell people what you do, why they should care, ding, ding, ding, very important. why they should care about what you do. The title consultant, expert, Sherpa, goat. Her, that is not the important thing. And no matter if you think it's perfect or not, they still aren't gonna understand exactly what it means. So that's why I'm saying like move on. that's the place to spend the least amount of time. Diane: I feel like it's the logo of messaging. Like, you know, when you start your business and you're like, I cannot move until I have a logo. I can't do anything else. And it's only a few years later, you look back and you're like, you realize how adorable you were thinking the logo actually mattered to anything. But it's that same thing, right? It's like, I can't move on in my messaging without knowing exactly what to call myself. and we get stuck the same way. We get stuck with that logo. We get stuck with, what do I call myself? Nobody isn't gonna work with you. Cuz you said you were a business consultant versus a business coach. Wendy: They didn't even notice. And they're probably not paying attention to that piece. They were listening to everything else. So I hate those things because people go to die there and they spend 18 months in the back cave doing nothing else, not getting out, not getting in front of clients, not getting hired, working on those things. That mean almost nothing. So skip over them, put a placeholder, your program name will change. My program is now called extraordinary impact. You know what it was when I started it seven years ago, the clarity sessions, why? Because I just needed a placeholder. I needed a placeholder and it's gone through several different names. And now I'm very happy with where I am, but that came over time. But if I had stopped for seven years and gone, I don't think about the name. Oh my goodness. [00:14:00] Nothing would've happened. So all of those things, you just need to move on. You just need to move on. That thing is not that important and it will, and those things will come to you with time. Your logo will come to you with time. Your program name will come to you with time. Once you understand what the program is, people ask me all the time, what do I name this thing? And I'm like, what is it? I'm not sure, but what do we call it? Hmm here's where the problem is. You see that, right? Let's let's really figure out what it is, what it does and why people should care. The name will be somewhere in there, but you'll probably change it and that's okay. No, one's gonna notice. Diane: Yeah, I think we have this weird view in the online space that, that everything is permanent. I was talking to someone the other day and she was starting a podcast and we were talking about certain strategies around it and she's like, but I don't know what to call it. And I went, okay, well just call it something and you can always change it. And it had never even entered her mind. that her choice wasn't permanent. Wendy: Well, yeah. And it kind of goes back to what you were saying before about people sticking with an intro and going, I haven't changed my messaging or my intro as a point of pride, which is weird because everything changes. We level up, we get better. What we're doing. We learn more about how we can help people. And so we change how we help them. We go deeper or we go farther in our work. We change we up level our clients. So why would we not say things differently? Why would we not communicate the truth of the change differently? Which doesn't mean tearing things down and starting from the beginning, it means looking at what you have and going okay. Is this true anymore? And if not, what is, and that can be incredibly, incredibly powerful to do those small changes, even. I mean, even though I was saying, you know, don't worry about your title, even something as, as small as that, I used a really crap title for ages, and I know why I used a crap title, but just changing my crap title to an accurate title to now call myself a messaging strategist. [00:16:00] The difference is massive in terms of people understanding and leaning in. And I only changed that in the. Eight months. I changed a lot in my messaging in the last eight months and I do this for people Diane: people, Wendy: so, Diane: right. I think even like culturally. Like there are so many changes. I mean, if you think a few years ago, you wouldn't have been able to say that you were the Uber of, or the Netflix of, or, you know, any of those things that we see brands using now, because they wouldn't have meant anything. You would've been saying I'm the blockbuster of whatever. Right? If you never ch right. If you said that now, like all of gen Z is like, I don't understand what blockbuster is I don't get the reference kind of thing. At some point they're not gonna understand what Facebook is so even culturally being able to inject a bit of flare has to change over. Wendy: and I think it's fun too, because I think talking about you have to change and change and change. I can imagine someone listening it and going, wow, I've got so much, I'm trying to do. You're giving me one more thing. I need to stay on top of, but this thing can be really fun. I mean, that's the point? You're excited about what you do. You wanna express that excitement in ways that are fun to say that are that tickle you? I laugh at all of my own copy. I am a self amusing unit. If I don't find it enjoyable to say and read, then I don't put it out there. And I think all of your messaging should be like that. It should be stuff that you're like, oh my God. I love me saying that thing. That's so cool. I'm entertained. Diane: cool. Right. I love that as a barrier for us to be , okay, is it getting through that? Do I think this is fun Wendy: you think it's crap, I'm pretty sure that we're gonna think it's crap. Diane: Well, it's gonna come across because you're gonna be so awkward when you say it, Wendy: yeah. Diane: all of your body language is just gonna be embarrassed and twitchy and, and people aren't gonna know that that's the reason they're gonna think potentially that you're not speaking the Wendy: Yeah. And as you said, they come off, it comes off road. If they suddenly go to robot voice, I am a, or they, they rush through it. You can tell they're like, oh, I gotta get through [00:18:00] this because this sucks and only gets a good part. Oh gosh. Don't take us through a one minute, two minute of this sucks because people check out, they may be physically there, but they are no longer paying attention. Diane: Yeah. And if you have an opportunity to ask somebody for feedback, I have had people in, you know, were talked about us doing networking and I've had people say, Hey, I'm working on my messaging. And then tell me their messaging and say like, what did you like, what did you hear? And for me to reflect back, this is what I heard you say, I think is, is a really great way of you to get some feedback. You don't have to do that publicly. I'm not suggesting you go on Instagram and say like 17 versions of your message. But when you are saying a bunch of stuff, Having somebody reflect back to you, the keep bits they took away, or have them tell you what they think you do and you sit there and go, oh, that's actually not at all what I do. Wendy: I actually really like that inquiry, cuz most times people say, what do you think? You know, did you like it? And I find that question, not very helpful because unless I'm your ideal client, my opinion of your words, if they didn't touch me, that doesn't necessarily matter unless I'm your ideal client, but that inquiry of what did you hear? What did you take away is really holding up a mirror. Diane: like how would you refer me to someone else, you? know? And I can see the difference between, , when I jump into a room with somebody for a second or a third time, can I remember what they do? And can they remember what I do? Wendy: Yeah. And that's why I think the building blocks and having key things that you repeat over and over and over again is so important. Playing with those things, but not coming up with a new intro. Every time you walk into a different room saying things completely differently, getting settled in with some key phrases and then maybe expanding on one a little bit longer, maybe putting them in slightly different order, maybe swapping out a word. But when you hit on those key phrases, repeating them over and over again, because people need to hear those things over and over again. They won't remember them and they won't refer you. Diane: [00:20:00] So how do you feel about the word help? So I have a love, hate relationship with it because essentially I do help people, but the word help for me, doesn't inspire visions of high tickets. I do. One-on-one one to team. High ticket work, but then people will be like, why don't you use words like empower? that's just a little too much for me. It's not a word that I would use. Unless you're actually an empowerment coach. I'm not a hundred percent sure that that's a word that your people wake up at 3:00 AM thinking like, oh, I just need to be empowered. So I've managed to get to partner with. That's what I do. I am a strategic partner. I am in their business with them. But how do you feel about help? Wendy: I think it's a, it's a word that everyone is using. And so because of that, It loses a little bit of power. Anytime you can use a word that's slightly different that doesn't confuse. Now you use a word that's completely out of nowhere that people go, wait, what? And you, they spend 20 seconds going the hell. Did she just say, and you they're not even listening anymore. But I think anytime you can make a different word choice. People, everyone wants to stand out. Everyone wants to come across as different. And then they say the exact same words. And they're like, but why didn't I come across as different? I'm like, mm, this could be an opportunity to say it slightly differently. So in your case, you don't like the word help and you feel like it misrepresents a bit, what you do. So then don't say it. So as you said, you could say partner, you could say a number of different things in my case, because I am not a dumb for you coach. I. I actually work with people and teach them how to do this. I say teach because I wanna be very clear. I'm not a done for you copywriter. I'm not gonna write your stuff for you. Lots of times particularly when people are new, online, or new to business and they are struggling to get out of that, I'm in a helping profession. And I want people to see me as worthy of paying and, you know, sometimes just shifting it from, I help them too, to. They [00:22:00] hire me too. Can get you into a different head space. Diane: I like that I also think when you say I help you do this, it feels like you're taking on some responsibility. And I think in the kind of transformational space, so, you know, personal development, coaches, those sorts of things, it feels a little like you're taking some of that responsibility. For the transformation, Wendy: Mm, mm-hmm Diane: So I think I have some weird hangups around the word help. I also think if you're using the word help at the moment, this is not a reason to stop using your messaging. It's like the name of what you're doing, the source, the, the heck out of the word, help search for verbs. But honestly, the, like, this is like next level of like, how do I feel. Wendy: is kind of like, you know, this is like the fill in the blank formula, you know, my name is so and so I do, you know, I work with blank. I help them to do X so they can, Y you know, there's no, nothing wrong with that. As a framework, as a fill the blank framework, including using the word help. And I would not start fixing your intro by getting rid of that word, that fill in the blank formula. I know everyone's got a ton of them, and there's a lot of gurus out there pushing very variations on that. The fill the blank formulas, there's nothing wrong with that basic formula. But what I find is that people tend to focus on the formula and not on the importance of what goes into the blanks. That's where you get the crap in crap out kind of thing. People are filling in those blanks with crap. And if you've got a problem with the word help in that, fill in the blank formula, switch it out. But for most people, I would say, leave it there and work on the actual meat of your introduction. What do you say? You help people? How, how do you describe yourself? How do you describe them? Because that's where all of the issues are ha are happening. People are saying nothing. I mean, the number of people I run into in networking groups who [00:24:00] say I help women over 40 to live their best lives, or I help, I help entrepreneurs and corporates, cuz they always say both of them, I help entrepreneurs and corporates to scale to six, seven figures. I still have no idea what you do. and and you're the 400th person who said. Diane: that Wendy: and also, you know, so I, you look like everybody else. I have no idea what that means, because you could do bazillion things and you're not even talking to anyone, specifically, people scaling to six or seven figures. Like that's, that's like the entire entrepreneurial world. I help everyone do everything. Yeah. I mean, I hope everyone who wants to make money, do everything. So I guess we've excluded those people who wanna drive their business into the ground and make no money. Fantastic. We're not talking to them the, but the we're we're talking to everybody else and we still have no idea. So it's a waste of space and those are the things that would work on. I help them. What juicy fabulousness, not I help them scale to six or seven figures. I've had people say that to me and they look at me like they've said something and I. Okay. So what do you do? I mean, politely, nicely. Okay, are you a social media strategist? Are you a mindset coach? You know, do you help me sit better in my chair? I mean, I literally have no, I, we gonna, you know, are we gonna learn the garden so I can have inner peace? I mean, I dunno what we're talking Diane: I know what we're talking about. I'm gonna learn to garden for any peace. I love it. I was gonna ask what your messaging pet peeve was, but I'm, I'm guessing that this might be it. Wendy: Oh, gosh, there's so many there's so many, I would say the, the biggest, I mean, definitely, definitely saying the same thing as everyone else. And then, and then expecting it sound differently. I would say the, my, the biggest issue I see is people simply not realizing how key this is. They're working on all the other things they're trying to game the algorithm. And like I said, the hashtags and the, this, and then that and everything. And then they're kind of ask, act like this is an add-on or it's not that important. And what I've seen doing this [00:26:00] work is your message. Your intro, your interest is a very small part of your message, but this stuff is the thing that makes everything else work. It's the thing, when you can confidently communicate what you do and why it matters. it doesn't matter. The forum, it doesn't matter the platform that, you know, cuz the platforms are changing constantly. It doesn't matter if you have no platform, if you just send it in a, in a DM, if you just say it to someone, once you can do that, everything works and you don't need to build the giant stuff. And I think not enough people realize that and they're like, well, if I could adjust all these other things and I'm like, that is a lot of busy. And it's amazing how transformative it is when you can just simply say, you know, this is what I do, and this is why you should care Diane: and I think that gives you such a lens to view everything else you're doing. Like I'm gonna post this thing on social media. Does that explain to people that I help X do? Y and this is why they should care? Like, Wendy: Everything should be focused on that. Are you telling people all the time that you help people do this thing and why they should care? And if not, then what are you saying? And people are like, well, I'm putting out lots of content. I'm like, that says what though. Diane: Yeah. Wendy: Cause if it's not saying that it it's kind of not saying anything at all. Diane: Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I'm pretty sure that there are many people listening who at the moment are having the same moment that I'm having where I'm going. Oh, oh, we, we need to go back and revisit some, some things. So as I mentioned in the beginning, Wendy: people out. Diane: people out. Yeah, exactly. I mean, not just people, I I'm having a little moment myself right here, live on, live on air. But as I mentioned, At the beginning, like I have done your workshop, which was transformative for me being able to really talk about what I do in a very relaxed way to different people. Whenever I needed to, with those building blocks, I recommended all the time. Hashtag I'm not an affiliate. When is the next one? How can people [00:28:00] get more help their building blocks? Wendy: So the challenge is called the instant impact challenge, because that's what I want you to do. I want you to make an instant impact with your introduction. It's a free challenge to know there's no affiliates. it's a free live five day challenge to craft a unique and compelling introduction that you need. As a thought leader. I do the challenge every couple of months. So depending on when this airs it's coming up soon Diane: up soon. Wendy: And, and and in between the challenges, I also have my cheeky and complimentary instant impact guide, which is just a, a really fun guide that you can download to get you started on some of these key. Paradigm shifts that we've been talking about today, because for me, it's not just about like, how do we X, Y, Z put together an introduction, but what are those core messaging strategies that are underneath that are gonna allow you to think differently about your entire brand message and to take that forward. And they really are paradigm shifts looking at things completely differently. And cuz those stay. Diane: And I can vouch for, you know, if there are people listening, they're like, oh, I've got my messaging down. I have my, I hope X two Y statement. It's it's all good. The actual building blocks of like, why should people care about what you do? some of that work was the most challenging for me to do so it's, it goes beyond just how do I put pretty words into a sentence? I can't recommend it enough. I will link to it and to the guide in the show notes. So to finish up, I always ask my guests the same two. First of all, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your. Wendy: Interesting. So this is actually like more of a thing in my own head. I mentioned before that one of the things that happens a lot is people when they know I do messaging will say, what do you think? And to protect my own head and really for their benefit. I always push back on that question because the reality is is if you are here, if you're listening to this show, you are grown up, you have your own instincts, which are nine times outta 10. Correct. And I think the biggest thing that happens online is we, we start [00:30:00] replacing our own instincts and judgment with everybody. Else's. And it's always the wrong choice. And so one of the best things I can do for my clients at any level is to not, you know, is to teach them to fish, not throw fish at their head. I want them to learn to trust themselves again, look for themselves, look to themselves for their own answers. And so what I think of your words of your messaging? I mean, I could tell you, did you get what I wanted. But unless I'm your ideal client. So I always tell my clients mind your own business, the only two people who matter in your message, are you, is it what you wanna say? And does it work for your ideal client? The rest of us, all of the gurus who are saying, you should say it this way, you can tune all of us out. So I say, mind your own business. Diane: I like that. Mind your business. I'm a consultant. I like to tell people what I think a lot, but Usually, because that's what I'm being paid to do, Wendy: Absolutely. And it doesn't mean I won't, you know, validate and say, you know, it's wow, that was 18 paragraphs and it needs to be three. But in terms of like specifically, you know, do you like this word or does this work for you doesn't necessarily matter if I'm not your ideal client. And, and as you already said in this, you don't like the word help for your own reasons. So doesn't make any sense for me to say, well, you should use. It's your business. It's your message. You don't like the word don't use it. Diane: Yes, it wouldn't do you much good to tell me that I need to use the word help. So finally, what's the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entre? Wendy: I think the worst advice that I see over and over again is that Diane: that Wendy: I'm a big fan of, of outsourcing things. If you can. And outsourcing pieces of your business, absolutely hiring people to help you hiring people, to take it off your plate, but that you can outsource this kind of heart and soul of your business, that you can turn over your thought leadership, [00:32:00] your positioning, your branding, your messaging, what you actually are here on the planet to say to a third party and that they will figure it out. Whether that's asking a copywriter or a social media strategist to figure. Diane: or Wendy: what you should be saying and to who that is just, I see that over and over again. This, this is stuff that you really need to decide for yourself, particularly with your purpose driven entrepreneur. If you're here to do and say a thing starting with that, connecting it to, to, to that yourself and then building everything. And then you can hand it over to somebody else, but that kind of idea will, well, she can figure out my positioning. She can figure out my messaging. She could, well, they can do stuff. They can create stuff. But it's not gonna be what you want and you're gonna eventually tear it down. Diane: down. Wendy: So that's kind of the worst thing I've seen over and over again, Diane: Yeah. And if, and if you wanna be a thought leader, like it has to be your thoughts. Wendy: it does. Diane: You can't lead with somebody else's thoughts on your topic. Wendy: exactly. And if you, if you're, if you consider yourself a purpose driven entrepreneur, you have this, you know, You have this inside just a matter of really pulling it out and then communicating it properly. But, but asking someone else to figure out, you know, what that should look like you just can't outsource this high level stuff in your business. Diane: I loved. This has been fab. I, I feel like I want to go back and like, look at all my building blocks again. Wendy: It's coming up in just a few weeks. So please do come back and people do that because again, it's not just kind of a, here's another fill in the blank formula that you haven't heard before. It's not that it's really these deeper lessons and deeper lessons can take, you know, time to revisit them and, and, and take them another level. So please do come back. Diane: Awesome. So where can people find you on the socials if they want to carry on the conversation with you? Learn more about messaging. Wendy: Absolutely. So definitely come to my website, Wendy white dot. Very easy. Sign up for my email list because you get, you get, you will get notifications of the next challenge coming up. You can get access to the guide, everything we've talked about the weekly show I'm doing on [00:34:00] YouTube, so that's probably the best place to go. But I'm very active on LinkedIn. And I do a lot of YouTube videos, so my YouTube channel's a good place to go as well. Diane: We'll link everything in the show notes. Thanks so much, Wendy. Wendy: absolutely. Thank you. This has been super fun.