What You Need to Know Before Scaling Your Service Based Business With Abagail and Emylee of Boss Project

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Diane: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, today's guests, Abagail and Emylee are the powerhouses behind boss project and the chart topping podcast. The strategy hour, they help service based businesses, reignite their offer. Create client experience systems, and implement strategies that don't include flashy marketing, a huge audience or full time hours. I think we can all get behind that. Hey, Abagail and Emylee. Welcome to the show. Emylee: Hi. Abagail: It's so great to be here. Thank you for having us. Diane: So let's kick off with a little bit about how you became boss project and that journey so far. Abagail: Sure. So for those of you who haven't met us before Emylee and I met on the internet, like many of you have met some of your internet besties and the biggest difference between, you know, staying Instagram, friends or Facebook friends is we decided to become business partners less than three months after we met Emylee: Obviously that's the natural transition. Abagail: You know, it was a little bit nontraditional, but the thing that really started it all was that we had the same will the same ambition and we ultimately decided we'd be better together rather than competitors. And so we decided to start what was originally think creative collective and has since transformed into boss project. Serve women in Fs and business and help them build businesses that thrive both financially and soulfully. And it's been such a pleasure over the last seven years to watch that grow, evolve and pivot over time. Emylee: And the Braggtown part of this is we've worked with over 10,000 service providers, helping them set up their business and their systems and that kind of behind the scenes unsexy part of business. But the thing that's actually going to help you scale in a way that is sustainable and is ethical to you, your health, your happiness, your team, your boundaries, and everything in between. And we, we we're now. Multimillion dollar company with a team of nine [00:02:00] and serve students and clients from 189 countries. And it's like the funnest job I've ever had. Diane: love the like, and the systems that are sexy, like yes, systems are sexy. More people need to come on board with that. And I think if anyone's listening and you're like, wait, why does this sound familiar? they're like famous for Trello for business, right? Yeah. I feel like everybody goes through Trello for business. Right? Like I've discovered this new thing and then you tell everyone and they're like, yeah, we already know. Thanks. Right. Emylee: of passage for service providers. I feel Diane: yeah. Yeah. I feel like that should be on your website, start here. Rite of passage. Abagail: It is definitely red of passage. We've had over 10,000 entrepreneurs just take that program alone. And it's definitely a fantastic foundational way to get started with project management. But trust me, that is like the tip of the iceberg. We've gone on to do so many more things since then that really dive deeper into systems and behind the scenes operations. Diane: let's talk about what service based actually is. For me, I think of service based as basically anyone who doesn't do something with a physical product. But I know some people are like, well, no, no it's done for you. People only as in let's say like, BMS or web designers or whatever, it doesn't include coaching and consulting. So where is the boss project line? When you say service? Emylee: I I think that's a great, it's a great conversation to have. I think I could probably talk for hours about this topic in and of itself because I see it happen in so many different levels for not only our clients, but for us as well. We've always identified as being a service based business, even when we've worked with 10,000 people or one person or a team of five or whatever it might be. And I think to me, If you are more interested in serving instead of, or over vanity metrics, going viral for the sake of going viral having fans, if you are more interested in creating intimate relationships, no matter the [00:04:00] quantity with deeper impact and bigger results, then you are a service provider. Abagail: Yeah. And I think in terms of to answer your question specifically, I'm less interested if you have a tangible product or not. So we do serve service based businesses that are coaches and consultants a as well. A more traditional service provider. I would still say the majority of them tend to be you know, in that more traditional service space where they're doing web design or copywriting or You know, a VA level type service as well. But we absolutely have high level consultants. We have this amazing client named Emylee Jane she's in emergency management consulting. And you know, she's coming into businesses that are planning for like, what if, what happens if Katrina happens again? Like how do we mitigate risk for that? So, you'd be surprised the, the vast. Industries that we've worked with, Emylee: Because another one of our clients. Cookie decorating classes for fortune 500 companies. That's her service. And so it's like, I love the variety, Diane: I'm a little devastated by that because no one ever gave me a cocky baking or icing or decorating or whatever class. When I was stuck in corporate for 13 years, I got to go on like compliance training. And I don't know, it was like sexual harassment training, you know? Like were the, where was the cookie decorating? Abagail: Definitely. I would love to be on the other end of her classes on a regular basis for Emylee: Yes. Diane: Goodness. Wow. Okay. Well, before I get too, like up in my feelings about that. So when we think about scaling those service based businesses, there are so many options. So we go from done for you to done with you, to DIY being like group programs and courses, but then you also have all the models behind that. So you could build a team or you could have an agency, or you could license it. You could do a [00:06:00] combination, right? So there are a lot of things. So when somebody says, okay, I wanna scale, where do they begin? What is your go-to advice? Emylee: we've got a list. We'll try to tackle as many as we can. I'm not starting with the first one on our list, but I think that this is the first question you should ask yourself. And it's kind of what you already started listing off. I need you to absolutely know what scaling means to you. Your business and your goals and how you want to live your life in business in order to make those things happen. So like you were talking about, you could build an agency, you could hire employees, you could be just a one person show it. It literally doesn't matter. There are so many different ways of scaling and anyone who tells you that there's only one way of scaling is lying to you. and it's their way, right? Yeah. but I think the thing that, that people forget, and at least our clients, nearly every single one of our clients have come to us when they've already attempted scaling, but they're scaling in a way that is alignment for other people's goals, because they think that those are the goals that they should have. And that maybe that's the only way to go about scaling or that quantity is real scaling. And, and if you are, if you aren't, after increasing your numbers on every capacity, your audience, your engagement, your client, your profit, your revenue. If you're not into increasing all of that, then you're not actually scaling and that's not true. And so I really want everyone to be really in tune. What that means to you? Not only what does your revenue scale look like, but how do you wanna show up in your day to day? What do you wanna be doing? How do you want life in the seasonality that naturally happen? How do you want them to feel? Like, what do you want your team to function? Like, what are some of the values that you have? I think all of those questions can go into, like, here's the outcome that I want. Here are the things that I'm willing to do to get there. And here are the things that I'm not willing to do to get. Diane: Oh, I was trying to mentally answer all of those questions. As you were asking them. I feel like that was like 17 points Emylee: yes. It's. Diane: oh, I mean, like what's left. Abagail: Oh, [00:08:00] my gosh. There's so many things that are left. I think when you looking at scaling, you know, a lot of people consider. The revenue side exclusively. But they're not necessarily thinking about the structure and the architecture that goes behind scaling. And I think so often, especially in the online marketing world, if you're listening and absorbing a lot of like podcast content and all of that, you're seeing a lot. Marketing information things that are focused on leg gen and, and really like front end advertising, but true scaling requires productizing your in service to some level and to some degree so that you can create automations and efficiencies behind the scenes. And I'm not saying that everything needs to be done by robot or everything needs to be done by a piece of software. But you do have to have some consistency from client to client. And I think in order to best do that, while you need to know where you ultimately want to go, you also have to consider what pieces have to be done by a human and like what pieces can be automated or systematized to create those consistencies. And it, and it really even comes down to. When you're thinking about a physical person doing the job, what about that job can be the same from client to client? Even during the sales process, like, are you using the same language? Are you having the same sales flow? Because if you're not you're, you're just really. Experimenting all the time and you're not really gathering the data. That's gonna allow you to know what's working and what's not, Diane: Yeah. And I think service providers, especially the ones who have traditionally done done for you, but coaches and consultants are just as [00:10:00] bad are so used to that scope creep that they are just like, oh, let me customize every single thing that I sell. And it sounds like even before you put the automation in place, it's just thinking through how do, how can I, as the person in my current level productize what I do so that I'm not making a different decision. Abagail: If you can make, you know, every project, 90% the same, like, not that you can't have customizations, but these custom, it should be custom light. Otherwise you're just consistently having to do things from scratch and that, that just not that that's bad, but you either need to charge for it and charge appropriately for it. Or you need to create those efficiencies so that you can have a value based pricing model. Diane: I'm just loving the systems E nerdiness of this, like any podcast that I get to do where the word productization gets used. I'm just Emylee: it's so sexy. Isn't Diane: it is like, people just don't appreciate the, like tech turn on that's happening right now. Abagail: love it. Diane: Okay. So now, now that I'm like, whew, totally out there with all my tech. Emylee: if Diane: Yes. What were we talking about? Oh, I got a little distracted over there. okay. What is next on our list? Emylee: yeah, so I think piggybacking right off of that, of truly understanding how to productize the service and understanding what can you delegate to a software, a team member whether contractor or employee, I think the part two of that question. As soon as possible, I being able to identify what your actual zone of genius is that creates the magic for your clients and literally create a system for everything else. So we have clients who, when we talk to they, there's multiple steps to the client process, right? Where you're like building relationships and you're landing the. Client, you're getting to know the client, you're onboarding them. You're doing part of the delivery. You're like getting revisions and you're doing another piece of delivery and then you're off [00:12:00] boarding and you're doing something else. Right? The, and there's a thousand steps in between all of those things, but what is the magic that you bring to just like. One of those pieces. Cause it's really easy to think that you bring magic to all of those pieces, cuz you've been doing all of them for so long. And I love that for you. But the way to scale is to do less of those things. So you can show up more where your zone of genius is so you can either impact more people. Or be able to do the thing that's gonna get more leads in the door or learn how you can increase your prices and add on more value or learn and have the time to delegate and hire and train successfully because that can sometimes be a full-time job. There's so many other things as. The CEO and founder, which I think could be a whole other point. If we wanna talk about that you need to be out doing, and you won't ever have the time to do that. If you are the only one who can fulfill every single part of the client process Abagail: The interesting thing is we were just having a meeting with a client this morning and she literally said the magic sauce is when I do this thing and. She is immediately trying to outsource the thing she literally just said was the Emylee: Don't do that. Abagail: And I was like, tell me about other things that are going on behind the scenes. And she's like, well, you know, one of the things that is causing problems is I never really know when the clients filled out some of their forms and like, are they ready? Do we need to follow up? can we even move on to the next stage of the process? And I'm constantly asking my assistant, like, can you look this client up? And she's having to check email and this and that. And I was like, oh my God, like the. The level of inefficiencies, there is crazy. And it's like, I know you wanna get rid of this thing, cuz it seems like it's an hour call on your calendar, but I promise you if we fix this other thing over here, which sounds much [00:14:00] smaller in the grand scheme of things. But if it's taking you 20 minutes to find the answer to that one thing, every time you have that question, that's a lot like if we just fix that. We could be saving you hours a week. And all of a sudden the thing that is your magic sauce feels way less of a burden on your, on your calendar, cuz you're, you're not stressing about is the client being reminded and prompted and all of those other things, Diane: I think industrywide, we have a problem in the online space where hiring and outsourcing and delegating is taught as clon. Emylee: yeah. Diane: So you're taught to go and find the exact person you are, I mean, you don't wanna do this thing. So why would you hire yourself again to do this thing and then wonder in six months why they've left. Right. But I think it also delivers that message of , Just get the, the most time intensive thing. It doesn't look at energetically. How do you feel about everything? The recovery time, the back and forth time of Emylee: context switching. Diane: like, yeah. Like just build a dashboard that you can see. Whenever you wanna have a look at it and then do your thing, which is actually the thing that you got into business to do. Emylee: Yes. Yes. Diane: I definitely think we have some problematic hiring messaging in the Abagail: Oh, a hundred percent. The, we have a whole episode on our own podcast about how to not hire you 2.0, and why that's a really bad idea. I, I think oftentimes you're doing it out of. Desperation. And you're not necessarily looking at what is ultimately gonna grow your business because the right hires, the right hires, wills help you scale. Because even if they aren't necessarily taking things off your plate, they are creating bandwidth in your business that didn't previously exist and the right people can exponentially grow your business. Diane: So can I piggyback off of that one before we go back to the list? So you mentioned out of desperation, right? A hundred percent, so much hiring happens out of desperation. So does system [00:16:00] change, you have to get really fed up with your email provider before you'll be like, okay, I'm just gonna swap. And you're swapping out of rage kind of thing. Emylee: I've never done that. Diane: No me neither. I've heard, I've heard that this is Emylee: Someone said once. Diane: Yeah. Yeah. Someone once told me that this is what happens, but I think when you start to talk to someone like they're in that desperation phase, they have zero capacity for anything. And all they're trying to do is just move away from the thing that's the most painful in that moment. What is your view on making time to make time to do this? When you don't have Abagail: Girl. Emylee: If I could get that tattooed on my head, I would Abagail: Make time when you don't have time to spend the time on the thing that you was gonna give you your time back. It's a lot, I will say one of the least. Thought about opportunities for this that is honestly the easiest to employ that costs you the least as well is actually creating these efficiencies outside of work. So initially you just have more time to work. And then once you get your shit sorted, then you can actually hire people inside your business. Honestly, I think it's a little unethical to hire people inside your business when it's a hot ass mess and you need to get your shit together first. So we actually suggest you look inside your personal life first and see like, Literally initially it could be as simple as a conversation with your spouse about just who's in charge of what in the home. And can we reassess who's doing what for a period of time. But after that, Emylee and I both prioritized Having someone help clean our home and eventually having someone do our laundry for us, we both won't hesitate to hire services for our yard and, you know, things like that. So I was shocked how much time and head space, [00:18:00] not thinking about laundry and not thinking about how lunches were getting made would free up for me personally, but it was massive. Emylee: mm-hmm mm-hmm Diane: I always say to people when they're like, oh, I'm about to launch. I'm like, have you ordered meal prep? is there microwaveable food or is food coming? Because that just takes so much time. And I think there's this. You're right. There's the same elements of like, I have to do all of this stuff in my business and then I have to go Abagail: like we're just like expected to be on all the time. Diane: I mean, just think of the, like the, the sheer amount of time. You'd save, not arguing Emylee: Yes. What's for Diane: it is to load the dishwasher. right. Emylee: Yes. Diane: So we all agree that we need to make time to make time and that there are options to make time. Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same Abagail: don't too worry. We are, we are preaching from the same Bible. Diane: Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. What else is on our, on our list? Emylee: yeah, I kind of alluded to it earlier. But The thing that I wanna bring up is understanding the difference between your CEO role, your founder role, and then your. Almost like your, your client delivery role, like the, the, the, almost the contractor in your business, that's doing the thing. Those are three very different business roles. Those are three diff very different areas of thinking strategy. And those three people, if they were three different people would make decisions in different ways for their own benefit. And sometimes you have to make the decision as the CEO. As the founder or as the contractor. And I want you to begin to understand when you need to put a different hat on, to look at something from a different lens, because oftentimes we're making the decision based on like, I just need more money and I need to get more clients. But that contractor person is like, well, I'm drowning now. And I have all this client work and I don't know what to do. Or the CEO person has a brand new idea and they wanna launch a new offer and they wanna talk to a new audience, but the founder is like, but this is where the money is. Why are we ignoring this [00:20:00] over here? And so if, if you are playing all of those roles, All of the time and you don't, especially if you don't have anyone else to kind of be that person, who's like, wait a minute. You really have to be intentional about, okay, right now I'm gonna be the CEO. And here's what that means. And here's what I would do because I'm sitting in this position and know that those decisions and actions are because of that role. Abagail: Yeah. And you can't, you can't always let one or another win. You, you have to be mindful that like, what is the actual priority in this scenario? Cuz sometimes profit is the priority and that'll mean you make a tough decision. Sometimes. It's not, you know, sometimes you'd rather sacrifice profit to create efficiencies or to free up your time. And you're like, I don't care if I make less money. If it means I don't have to do X, Y, Z thing anymore. And I think understanding when you have to pull those different things out, I know Emylee, before she started talking, alluded to price, you know, when we're talking about scale, It's really easy to assume that scaling means taking the product productized service you have today and simply selling more. And that is an option, but it's not always the option that makes sense for people. You know, a lot of people assume immediately that they need another. they need another category, so to speak, to, to fill that role. And I've seen a lot of people who are fulfilling a service for. More on the value end of pricing. And they assume they need to go down like the digital product realm and they need to sell volume and they, they need to sell something at a low approachable price point. And I think if you don't understand the numbers behind what goes into that, you can get really [00:22:00] distracted, really fast and burn through a lot of cash in the process. What we typically see is that we, we need to reassess. Capacity and price point, at least initially. And there is likely a refinement on what you're already doing well that we can create a. Refined version of the productized service you have today likely at a different price point and, and create some efficiencies that most of the time I've seen people end up working with less people and making more money because they had a mismatch between their price and ultimately what they were delivering. And. While that's not always the case. I it's a great place to start. I definitely think there are opportunities as you fully like taken advantage of one service vertical, you can eventually create other verticals, but most of the time people are trying to like add those things. When they've really only touched the surface on what this one thing can do for them. And so they end up doing. So many things and none of them very well, and it just creates a lot of stress and tension in the business. You know, I, I think a lot of this comes down to like, you are seeing big corporations, billion dollar companies who, you know, they're making movies and they're selling physical products and They're doing all of these different things. And so you're like, well, if they can do all these things, then I want to do all these things and you can, but like, if anything's helped us, I think a lot of it was that it didn't have to all come from the business. Not necessarily this isn't just at the income you make, because one of the biggest realizations I know Emylee had for sure was that not all your income and your household has to come from one [00:24:00] business venture. There are other ways to grow your personal income without relying a hundred percent on this one thing. But also all of your joy and fulfillment doesn't have to come from your business. And a lot of times people's desire to diversify. Comes from a lack feeling somewhere else in their life. And they're trying to fill a hole and they're trying to like spark joy or heal trauma or try something they've always desired to do. And it doesn't always make sense in the business they actually own today. Diane: when people start to scale, they underestimate and Emylee, I think you alluded to it how much it takes to. Lead and develop your team. Abagail: Yeah. Diane: people think they'll just be Like it'll, it'll be me. And then I'll bring in all these people. And so they think they can have 20 products because they're gonna have a team of 300 people running it. And somehow somebody's just gonna magically appear in that void to , develop that team. And. That's just very unrealistic. Right. But also understandable because they often go from them and a VA to 300 team members overnight. And you just haven't had a chance to grow yourself as a leader. Now you've got 40 products to manage as well as all the, the team much better. If you can just go upwards with just you to get some breathing room, like almost like scale yourself Emylee: Mm-hmm. Diane: Get that breathing room and then make good decisions about what else you wanna do. Emylee: Well, this is why we always like tell people that they don't actually want to be an overnight success because scaling too quickly is detrimental to the end success of your business, your health, your happiness, and everything in between, because there is a purpose between growth and. And stagnancy and growth and then stagnancy. And that's fine because in those moments of when you're plateauing in your revenue or your, your audience [00:26:00] expansion or whatever it is that you're looking at, you're learning and you're adjusting to this new version of that business. And you'll make decisions differently because you're at that space. But if you continue to scale super quickly, you're making decisions up here when your mentality is still down here and you haven't caught up to that growth yet. Diane: in corporate, you start and it's just you, and then you have one person and then you maybe have five people and then you maybe have 10 people and then you have, maybe have two teams of 10, right. You're not like, oh, congratulations. Your new goal for this year is to manage this entire department on day two. Right. Right. And, but then I think there's some shame in the entrepreneurial land because they've been encouraged to, again, grow, get a team, manage a team, do all of these things. You're an amazing leader without anybody really stepping in to be like, this is how you do that soft skill side. Emylee: Yes. Diane: Because very few people made all their money being a leader. Like they made their money doing a very specific skill. Usually that is not, oh, I led teams for a Emylee: The amount of unethical team management that's happening in this industry is ridiculous. And what I just find really frustrating is that it all starts with good intentions, right? You leave what? Probably was a toxic corporate environment. And, you know, here are all of the things that I don't wanna repeat and do. And then you wake up and you realize you've created a system that does all of those things, because you didn't know what you were doing and it's okay that you don't know, but it's not okay that you continue to go on just because you don't think that you can change it. Abagail: You gotta have to take back charge and, and be willing to learn. I, I think most people can effectively manage two to three people on their own. And after that you're gonna Emylee: We're the founder of a company too, like, oh my gosh. Like people who are leading two teams of 10 or four teams of 10, aren't the [00:28:00] founder of that business in corporate environments. Diane: you have that person that you can lean on when you go, okay, this team is on fire. I don't know what to do. Here's your manager who manages your two teams plus seven other teams going, okay, let's start at the beginning. This is, this is what I would do. This is what I would Emylee: babe, you own this joint. You Abagail: Yeah. If, if you own the company, you're gonna have so many other things on your plate that managing people is realistically a very small fraction of what you can do. And so ultimately you have to, if you choose to scale the team, you have to invite. Other management and leaders into your company to help you grow the thing. And I, I think a lot of people resist structure because they felt like the structure is what caused. Tension, perhaps in the corporate environment. And I want to remind you that structure is neutral and the people that cause tension were likely people with ill intentions that were thinking of themselves first, not necessarily the fact that someone had a boss, you know, like, so we really have to invite structure as an opportunity to create. Systems and processes and like realistic job descriptions and groups of people with the same mission and goal. And think of it less as a burden on yourself or your company. Emylee: Yeah. Diane: Yeah. I was at an event once and I heard the guy who created the five minute journal, And someone asked what he would tell anybody else in business. And he said, the one thing you have to remember as a founder and a CEO is no one will ever love your business. The way you love your business. But in entrepreneur high vibe, Uber positivity land, it's like, oh, this person's a lifer or this person is so like, no, like if they're life crumbles around you, you are not their priority. If their kid needs something, you are [00:30:00] not their priority. Right. And I think we've kind. Forgotten that piece, because that feels structural. right. I think structure is like systems it's sexy to the right person. Emylee: Well, and it it's values and understanding. Not only what the values are, what they mean to you, how to live in them as an employee of this company and what it means to not live in them. And when I say that, I mean, like literally in our, you know, inner web, what's it called? Inner Wiki, our little thing, internet. Thank you. Where all of our team has access to. We have a playbook where we list our values and we Abby and I, as the founders have said, what does that value mean to us? Here's what it looks like to show up. Here's what it looks like when you're not living in that value. And it really helps keep every single member of our team, including us, who needs to be reminded sometimes of like, Ooh, we're like living a little outside of what we said, we actually prioritize and let's come back to that. And if we don't know what those are, then we're all just like, Free falling out here and no one's gonna be guided with anything. Diane: and then you're wondering why, like your teams resigned, your systems have crashed and your somehow at three in the morning, trying to put up a website Emylee: Yes. Yes, because the, the opposition of structure, and we've seen this happen too, with multiple seven figure business owners who have just kind of put their middle finger up to systems and structure and removed all levels of anything within their team. And everything's just this, like you're saying, hi vibe, free flowing, whatever. And I'm like, Diane: I'm like, yeah, Emylee: as children, we all crave structure and routine and guidance. And you can do that ethically and in a healthy way, just because you haven't figured out what that means yet. Doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying to figure that out Diane: Yeah, whenever I see a new kind of management model or team hierarchy structure or something, I'm always like, I'm gonna check back in six months time[00:32:00] because we. We can hate corporate and we can hate big business, but they got to be big businesses for a reason, right? Like that model works. The culture doesn't have to be as toxic, but the actual model frameworks structure works. Emylee: Yep. Yep. And that's like my favorite trick of life and literally anything is take what, like the toxic white man has created and figured out what actually works and then make it better within my own space. That's actually. That is sustainable. That is healthy. That is efficient because there is a way to take something where you're like, you took that in a weird way. And I don't like that, but what's the, what's the piece of it that was effective. Diane: Yeah, I feel like we've gone down a really scary path for everyone. Is there anything joyful on the list that we should, that we should hit to like Abagail: Yeah. OK. How about sure. To bring some joy back into it? I think it's important to. Get excited about where you're going. So I know we talked about like, what does scaling mean to you and what, in what way do you want to show up, but also like what is gonna motivate you to get to that level? Because I think often we get to a point in business where. You're comfortable. You covered your basis. You're able to live the lifestyle that you have today, and like you might desire a higher lifestyle or changes in your lifestyle, but like, Technically, everything is like, good. And so you're gonna need something. That's gonna motivate you to the next level. And not everyone is motivated by money. Some people are some people like you could just tell me to make more dollars and I'm like, challenge accept it. Let's go. Emylee: You could be like, we need this much money for this vacation. Got it. I'm on it. Abagail: Yeah. And other people need other things that they [00:34:00] can work towards. And so, you know, sometimes this requires buy-in from other people in your life, but if you can identify, well, if I can get here. Here's what the reward looks like for me, or here's how things could change for myself. And the biggest thing here is to not go 75 steps ahead. Like you really need to be thinking tangibly about the next thing, because if you're like, what ends up happening? You know, you've made this, you did this when you were early in your career where you're like, okay, if I can get to this and save this much, then I can buy my first house. I think the same thing ends up happening later in your career. And you're like, okay, if I get here, then we can buy the second lake house and we can like have this boat and like have all these like luxury things and maybe that's your next step. But for most people that isn't necessarily the next thing on your list. Like it could be the difference. I wanna go to a date night and go to like a really nice restaurant, like once a month. Like, and what would it take to create that for you? Maybe it's a little bit bigger than that. Maybe it's like, I wanna renovate my kitchen. I don't know if you've looked at construction prices these days, but like, heck it's like basically a house at this point. It's like a hundred thousand dollars to even get paint on the wall. Like it's crazy. So like, what is it that you want to work towards and can you get buy-in from those people? That you would naturally need buy in to make moves and changes like that and have that motivate you to the next level. Cause we definitely got, we've had a couple plateaus in our business over time where we like didn't necessarily have a next level thing that was pushing us. And because of that, the business wasn't changing, which was fine. Yes. There's nothing wrong with plateauing on purpose. But if the goal is to scale, you [00:36:00] need to know why, like, what are you doing it for? Diane: And I think that works in a couple of ways, but a lot of people are like, I wanna make seven figures. I'm like, why? Abagail: Literally? Diane: And do you understand what it's gonna take? What it's gonna cost you to get two seven figures and maintain seven figures like that? To me, that is so uninspiring mostly because I've managed really big teams. so , I'm not that interested in managing really big teams again, in my own business. Right. So when someone says to me, oh, this is the path to seven figures. I'm like, Emylee: Cool. I then I'm good. Diane: But when someone says to me like, Hey, three months vacation a year, I'm like, wait, what? Hello, talk, talk, travel to me. Right. And so I guess, finding that, like vision that works for you. Abagail: And if, you know, if you have something that's like, I just wanna say I've done it great. Like, I'm not saying you can't have motivations like that. But there is a big difference between having a seven figure business and earning a seven figure salary. Like those are massively different things. And so like, are you, how hard are you willing to work? And I think that's the thing that Emylee mentioned at the very beginning Emylee: we're just, it's all circles back. Abagail: full circle. What are you actually willing to do to get there? And like, do you wanna work that hard? Cause you might say that's your goal, but. what are you having to let go of, to make that a reality. Diane: As we've circled back so beautifully to where we started. Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. This, this is what happens when you get professional podcasters on your podcasts, you, you don't even have to try. So I think a lot of people are probably listening to this being like, whoa, like this is a lot of stuff that I've never thought about before. Right? I know that you have. Some resources that people can go in and investigate and dive a bit deeper into it. Having listened to it. Hopefully we've opened a few minds. Emylee: Yeah. So clearly you like listening to podcasts. So I highly suggest you start [00:38:00] listening to ours as well. It's called the strategy hour podcast. You can find it literally wherever you want to listen to podcasts. We also have a plethora of blogs over on our website at boss project. But where you can take. Further and dive deeper with us and really pick apart the how behind all of the things that we talked about is by first taking apart in our training, you can get access to that at boss project.com/scale. It's free to watch. You just need to fill out a quick application just to make sure that we're the right fit, that your goals aren't alignment with how we serve. We're really critical, like in particular about the type of people that we work with, because I only wanna work with people that I love these days, cuz I get to be that picky. And I bet you are someone that we're gonna love. So go check out the application, spend a couple. Fill it out let's know that you did over at boss project on Instagram. You'll get access to a really incredible training that we put together for you to really dig deeper into what this could look like. What does scaling mean to you? And once you identify what that is, how do we actually get there with the sexy systems and the structure and all the things that we talked about today? Diane: Ooh, the sexy systems we've come full circle to that again. So to finish up, I always ask all my guests a couple of questions. I would love to hear from both of you on both of them. The first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Abagail: Wow. Okay. Number one, lifestyle boundary. I think the big one for me, we didn't necessarily touch on it, but both of our spouses work in sight of our business. And so ha working with your spouse as well as a business partner and like living and. Co-mingling and all that. It could be really easy to have all of those relationships crisscross in a way that causes issues. And so, for me, one of my biggest things is being really clear about like when I'm in work mode and when I'm in life mode and [00:40:00] my spouse and I will both shut down a conversation. Are you about to say a business? You can slack about it or we're in bed. Like let's not go there. And, you know, I have to, I test my own boundaries sometimes, and I'll be honest there, but having those checks and balances inside our home is really important for us to have a healthy marriage. And so, that's probably my number. Emylee: Yeah. Mine is actually one of the things that was on our list today, but we didn't get to talk about but it's, I am very, very strict about honoring what we call your zone of focus. So we've talked about zone of genius and it's like where you get to show up and the thing that you do really well, but Z of focus is. The environment and the things that you do like within your body and your environment in order for you to get into your zone of genius. And so a couple examples of mine are I need sometimes like to check out in the middle of the day to just like reset my brain creatively. So I'll go walk around like the coffee shop or target or the plant store and just like, get a reset. And I'm unapologetic about the times where I just disappear in the middle of the day. If I need to write, that's a big part of my role here at boss project. I know that the way for me to do my best writing is to not be in my house and to be in a really cute bustling coffee shop and spend a ridiculous amount on coffee and get some writing done. And if you need writing from me and it's not in the morning at a coffee shop, you won't get it until the next day. And I'm not gonna force something out of myself that I know isn't my best work because I'm not in my zone of focus. And so some of those boundaries are also about. Communication hours within slack. I have a kiddo who's in school and her hours are annoying throughout the day. And I'm just really communicative with our team about what those are. And so I know for me, I need the break, the pause, the reset, the specific environments for me to thrive well. And so I deliberately set that up and communicate that with my team. Diane: they're those systems in that structure Again, from both of you, [00:42:00] not just for your business. okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given on your business journey? Abagail: So this is more of a rant on the industry as a whole, but I. Am incredibly frustrated by the plethora of people that call themselves educators that are marketers teaching marketing, and they're disguising it as business advice. When. They really are just trying to teach you to be a monkey that did exactly what they're doing, that led them to be successful, but doesn't always work for everyone. And so my approach tends to be. Well, how do you wanna show up? What are your unique set of circumstances? What are the things that make you different? How does your business work? And I am very willing to dig into the details behind the scenes to understand what nuances do we need to take into account to make something. Ultimately work for you and it's not all about marketing. It really is about the operations behind the scenes, the systems that are there to support you. And so while there are some incredible people out there with good intentions, I also think. Diane: see. Abagail: A lot of them are just attempting to share exactly what worked for them. And they're unwilling to really understand the nuts and bolts of how a business works. And so I really try to approach things from what is the old school way. Like what can we learn for the last a hundred years, 200 years of people running and operating businesses. And sure we have all this access to technology that two generations ago didn't. But we can't use that as a crutch. We have to do business in a way that's ethical and sustainable. And that means looking at the business as a whole and not just through a [00:44:00] siloed lens. Diane: and a lot of that stuff that they're teaching worked pre pandemic. Emylee: hundred perfect. Diane: Right? People are just not willing to pay for what they were willing to pay for, or take a chance on something. Right. They're trying to put like food on the table. They're not gonna take a, a flyer on this new marketing thing that used to work 10 years ago. Emylee: Yep. We are in a risk adverse market right now. And your business has to evolve accordingly. I think there, at least in this industry, there's there's cookie cutter advice. And I feel like we tried to listen to this in the first few years of being business. And then we just were like, F it, like, we're gonna do what works for us. I think we, and I'm trying to, the reason why I'm struggling with words is I'm trying to get it down, down into one sentence, but it's, it's coming from a lot of different aspects of. Niche down only pick one thing to offer and one person to talk to and you have to go all in on that one thing or all in on this one type of business model and selling and serving and marketing and all in on whatever. And at least the biggest lesson that I've learned in business that continues to be true. Is that a. A sustainable CEO and founder will understand that their business needs to pivot and evolve slightly as your needs change the market, change your client changes. And if you ignore that to just be so laser focused on, I'm only offering this product, I'm only talking to this person, I'm only doing this. I do feel like it's gonna be harder for you. And I think the malleability that a CEO can have within. Motivating their team and coming up with fresh ideas, but also understanding where it does make sense to stay firm, because you have to have both is a skillset that people who are in business through pandemics and through recessions have that other people don't Diane: Yeah, I think it's, it comes back to that. You've been told this is the way it is the only way. And here are the nine, here are the nine steps to do it. And like, [00:46:00] don't, don't try to do step 10. No, no, no, no, no. We're gonna kick you out of our community end of the world. How dare you. So yeah, I think we love a good. Cookie cutter approach. And I think a lot of the, a advice that we follow is stuff that people broke the mold to develop. So I love to use like Stu McLaren, as an example, he kind of went left and went, let's do memberships. And somehow 10 years later, we're still like, let's do memberships. Like it, it's definitely gonna, it's a hundred percent gonna work. Right. And it's that same thing. You're just trying to squeeze yourself into somebody else. Abagail: Yeah, the Bo the Bo the box may have worked in their time and space, but like, is it gonna work in yours? Diane: Yeah. And their scaling model is the same thing. Right? Abagail: Exactly. Emylee: Yeah. Diane: cutter scaling models. Abagail: are so many Emylee: Mm-hmm Diane: that could be a whole other podcast episode. I feel like we could have veered off into about six different podcast Abagail: absolutely. Diane: this one thing. Abagail: back. Diane: Yes, a hundred percent. You're welcome. Anytime I'm always down to talk sexy systems and structure. Can you just remind everybody, cause I know people are gonna want to have more conversations about this with you. Just remind them where to find you on the socials. Abagail: Yeah, so you can hit us up over on Instagram, slide into our DMS at boss project. If you wanna check out our. New TikTok channel that is just in the development stage. It's at the boss project. And if you wanna check out all our blog content and a quick link to our podcast, you can find that@bossproject.com we'd love to hear from you and definitely would love to have you join us for that training. Emylee mention. So feel free to submit your application@bossproject.com slash scale. And. I will be the one in the DMS, having a real conversation with you along with other incredible members of our team. And I, I can't wait to chat. Diane: Awesome. This has been fabulous. [00:48:00] Thank you so much, ladies. Emylee: you so much for having us.