What’s Working With Courses Right Now With Molly Keyser

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, today's guest Molly Keyser helps business owners turn their passion into courses. That's after she built her own multi seven figure course business. There's a lot of how to build your course in info out there these days. But the world has changed so much that I wanted to understand how courses have or needs a change. Hey Molly, welcome to the show. Molly: Hello, excited to be here. Diane: So let's start with a little intro to you and your business. Molly: Sure. So I always like to give the speed dating version, cause I've been a business owner for like 17, 18 years. but. Speed dating version dropped outta college, started a photography business, grew it to multiple six figures. Other people started asking me how I did it. And so that's how I created my first course. So I had like three coaching clients and I quickly realized I'm already really busy with my business. Why would I add coaching? like, now I'm just even busier. So I took all that knowledge and I put it into a course. And we grew our most recent course for photographers zero to 2 million in two years. And we've done over 8 million. The, the whole time we've been in business. And now my sole focus is helping anyone turn their passion into their own profitable online course. So that's a speed dating. Diane: Oh, that was very succinct. Very impressive. So I feel like courses are kind of everywhere. I feel like we reached. saturation. I feel like there's a course for everything. I feel like there is a course on how to do courses , and they run the gamut from here's the like nine buck mini toolkit to all you need is a Google doc to the full, let me walk you step by step, but what's actually working in courses right now. I feel like people's expectations of life are completely different. So I would imagine their expectations of courses and what they're prepared to spend and what they expect within a course is completely changed. Molly: So I'll just share like one thing that we found recently. So this is like pretty advanced we'll, you know, we'll go there. Okay. So there's many different stepping stones [00:02:00] to starting your course and getting your first sales. That's my kickstart method, but we're gonna jump to the more advanced, so. Diane: so. Molly: I do recommend like doing webinars. I think they're really great. I don't think they're dead. However, I have noticed that whether it's related to the pandemic or not probably related to the release of TikTok and the fact that nobody can focus for very long anymore. I do think that people still very much enjoy free trainings, webinars, workshops, whatever you wanna call them. However, I, we did notice our show up rate. Has been going way more down with, with with webinars. So I still recommend that you do your webinar alive until it's converting. Whether your show up rate is low or not, because you can't automate something that doesn't convert and you throw more traffic at it. It's just still not gonna convert. However, we took our. Best live webinar. And I mean, honestly, prob we used to get like 30 to 50% show up right back in the day. Now it's like, we're literally lucky if we get like 18%, but when we automated that using automated webinar software, you know, we're getting 40 to 50% show because we're allowing them to join every half hour or at noon or 8:00 PM. We give them a lot of options. So I would say that's the first piece of advice. As far as sales goes, and then as far as. What's actually in your course, we, we spent 10 to $15,000 this year redoing our entire course because the first version, I mean, let's be honest, everyone looks back. I don't think we all love the first version of our course, but the first version was just like my husband recording me, you know, like. Talk about blah, blah, blah. You know, we scripted out like a curriculum. And then the second version, I really took my time and created like a slides with voiceover kind of a thing. But a lot of my students like used to love that, but more recently, a lot of people are like, well, I really wanna see your face. You know, the videos are too long. So what we did. And you certainly don't need to hire. like a studio, like we did, you can certainly do this, [00:04:00] you know, on a more like lower budget if you need to. But we went all out. We hired like a, a studio to record all the videos and everything. I basically went back through every single video and I made them all five minutes or shorter, and then I scripted everything out and read from a teleprompter that way there there's no. Like this, like thinking there's no ums, there's none of that. It's like really, really fast. Boom, here's the information. And then we spent like $5,000 on editors to edit, and then this is nine module course. So they edited every single video to be like as fast as like a TikTok or a YouTube kind of a thing with a lot of like, visuals and that, and the amount of people that are going through the course has definitely skyrocketed In summer, we do always see actually a lower percentage of people doing the course because our, our students are mostly women and they have kids and their kids are outta school. But a lot more people that started are going through the modules. And then also a lot of people are really giving us amazing feedback in our group. Like, oh my gosh, like I tried module one before and it was. Harder for me to get through, to watch those, you know, slide with voiceover. And so those would be the two things, like, I think auto webinars are like crushing it because people don't have time to like, you know, wait for the live and then show up and all that. Diane: And no one wants to be like, let me inconveniently put this in my diary. I'm like, give it to me that I can watch it on like two X, sometimes four X, depending how slowly the person speaks. And then it's like 15 minutes of my time at a time that's convenient for me. So. Even though you are into the auto webinar, once it's converting for a course, are you team launch or are you team evergreen? Molly: well I'm team kickstart and evergreen. So I'll talk about this quickly because. I know, you know, a lot of your listeners probably already have courses, but I think launches can be good down the road. Once you already have proven your course and you already have a following, but it pains me [00:06:00] to see people being like, start your very first course ever with a launch because the risk is really high. Like you don't even know if your messaging's good or if it's gonna convert. So I, I do this kickstart method where you essentially just like, if you don't already have a following, you get a couple hundred people in a Facebook group and you just have conversations with them and you teach the first round of your course live kinda like a beta. And then that way, like you're getting money up front, you know, the thing is good before you start building it. And then your students actually ask you questions and things along the way. So you're gonna end up building a better course. So. Yeah, I would say I'm team, like launching later if you need a burst, you know, but I'm definitely team kickstart and then evergreen, for sure. Diane: And I guess even if you have a course, if you're launching another course, like, just because your first course landed, you still kind of want to go back and be like, hang on a second. Let me just put this into that kind of kickstart beta mode, make sure everything's converting. So even if you're advanced, I feel like that's still Molly: Oh, absolutely. Like I have a lot of people reach out to me being like, well, I already have a course is your course for me. And I'm like, if like, are you getting the amount of sales that you want? Cause if you're not, then I do. I do just, like you said, recommend starting with the, the beta kickstart because maybe the reason your course is not selling is cuz you didn't do those baby steps. And so the messaging isn't aligned or something like that. Diane: And you mentioned. One of the things that, that you've changed has gone like shorter punchier style videos. I definitely have a course graveyard full of like hour long lessons, shiny object. People, entrepreneurs are all shiny object people, even if they tell you that they're not. And so I'll have just bought one course. And like the next course is already like flirting at me from like nearby, like buy me, buy me, buy me. And so , my course graveyard is extensive. Molly: Hey, I've spent over $200,000 in courses. So I, I, with you. Diane: I have to admit the other day I was looking for a login and for the life of me, I had to like [00:08:00] actually use the find feature because that's how many courses are in there. But one of the things that's always curious to me given, right. Our kind of fast pace culture and. Xbox and all of that that's floating around is like, why we don't see more gamification in course, completion. Right? Like I will do anything to win a badge or beat someone. Molly: I love that. Diane: Can we bring that in more? Is that something that's just like it's over the top. Does it not work for entrepreneur style courses? What's Molly: So I definitely have a solution for that. Well, at least, you know, in my opinion, that I've tried and I, I think number one, when you're first starting out with a course, you know, it's too maybe tacky or difficult to try to like tackle that because, you know, obviously should just tackle, like getting the dang course done. But as far as like helping your students to finish the course, here's just some things I do in my course. So, like I said, short, punchy videos with a lot of editing and to hold your attention we also have like every single video has. Downloads that are relevant quick, you know, to complete, we're not talking like worksheets, you have to sit and fill out. We're talking like SOPs, like checklist, like step one, you know, and then every single lesson has a homework document so that it tells them exactly what they need to do. And I think that really helps too. And then we encourage them to post their homework in the Facebook group. And so that helps to keep them accountable. And then we have quizzes at the end of every module and. It actually is like a quiz from school. And so a lot of people love it. Some people hate it, but what I've noticed is the people that don't do it, they don't really implement because it basically asks you, like, did you do this step? Did you do that step? You know, because like you said, it's hard to do that. Okay. Another thing is in module, one of my course, we talk about something called the emotional cycles of change. So I actually take the time to teach them about how gosh, I'm gonna try my best to remember this. Essentially, it's like a curve like this and it's like, find out about the course. Okay. Get [00:10:00] excited about the opportunity. Oh, this is gonna be so easy. Right. Then they start doing the work and they're like, okay, this is really hard. I don't know if I can do this. And then a lot of people will quit at that point. But if you keep going, that's really where the success is, is when you don't quit. So I think teaching people about that mindset does help our students stick, but here's the most fun, gamification part that I think you guys. We did this with our last course, and we're actually actively implementing it with this course right now. But essentially what we do is we come up with what are like the hardest milestones or what are the milestones along the way. And then we allow them to earn prizes. So. Once you make your first, you know, thousand dollars, then you're gonna get this digital download or whatever once you hit, you know, and then there's little increments along the way, but like biggest increment. It's like, oh, once you hit, you know, 500,000 or a million, you're gonna get, you know, a one on one day with me or like you get to join our mastermind for free that we did this with our last program and it. Crushed, like people were obsessed. Like we would give them like little necklaces and like, it wasn't even expensive stuff, you know? And people just freaking loved it. Taking photos with it, you know, just like you said, like we are we're business owners, we're competitive. Like we wanna compete for these prizes, you know? Diane: Yeah. And, and people will weirdly do anything for free. Molly: Oh yeah. Diane: Right. Like just like human nature. I, no, me too. Even if it's something that I'm like, I don't even know if I want that. You're like, oh wait, I don't have to pay for it. Well, maybe I'll want it, hang on. So I get the gamification, like the competitiveness, and I think it's kind of important because. From a course creative perspective. People aren't finishing your course, I'm not a testimonial for any of those courses that are in my air table. Now me, I tend to go more for tactical courses where I'm looking at the moment I've done my fair share of giant courses, where I'm looking for something specific. Molly: That is absolutely what I teach now and what you have to do nowadays, in my opinion, you have to have a result. Diane: Yeah. I wanna be able to go in and like, [00:12:00] grab this module, do this module, feel like I've got something and then I'll go away and then maybe I'll come back and do the next step in the process. Or maybe I don't care. Or often once you're established, you don't need like modules one Molly: mm-hmm Diane: You just need modules five through eight But if I never get to eight. I'm not a testimonial for you. I'm not a success story for you. I'm not helping you validate module eight. If I'm just sitting there on like module five, right? Molly: Yeah, I think one thing that's cool with the prizes is what we did, what we was, we would say like, okay, once you've and my milestones is making money because I help people make money, your course can be something different. Right. But. It's like, oh, once you reach a thousand dollars in sales, you can get this, you know, necklace or digital download or whatever, but we make them fill out a form. That's essentially testimonial because number one, we want the testimonial, but number two, we need them to actually prove to us that we have, that they actually made the money because we don't want people, you know, touting all these prizes and stuff. And then later it comes out. They didn't actually earn that money or whatever. But so that's kind of like a two for like you're. Making sure these people actually earned that, but then you're also getting testimonials along the way. So like for my course, it's really broken up into three parts. There's like the kickstart, then there's like the selling one to many and then there's the automation. And so sometimes people just do the kickstart and they decide to kickstart bunch of courses. not what I would recommend, but they can do what they want. Right. And then some people maybe just wanna keep doing the, the one to many. Some people wanna automate it. So, but you wanna get those testimonial along the way, cuz like you said, if you're waiting till they finish the course to get the testimonials, like it's gonna be a low percentage. If you have a big course, Diane: And then if they do get to the end, you've got that full case study. Of like, here's how I felt at the beginning. And then I did the kickstart and I felt this. And then I went on from the kickstart. Like it just builds that case study, which is genius because when you go to write a case study with someone they're often, so far from the beginning [00:14:00] point that it's, hard for them to think back and make it into a story. Whereas you're just kind of collecting this story on the journey in a really automated Molly: and in our quizzes too, we ask people like, what did you know, where are you now in your journey? And then we can, you know, then we have the data because if you go to tell someone's story, You need to make sure like it's accurate, you know? So, and a lot of times, you know, since my, we work with a lot of different people, but my ideal clients, small business owners, they're really busy. So if I'm like, Hey, let's hop on a one hour testimonial call. They're like, I don't know. You know, like I don't. And I, I mean, I have a bunch on my YouTube channel, but like my point is, I actually prefer just collecting it over time, because then I can say to them, Hey, I'm, I'm thinking about publishing, this is this okay with you? And then they're like, yes, it's way less of their time. So it's like way easier. Diane: Yeah. There's always that freeze moment. When you ask someone, if they can have a testimonial, even if they love you and they wanna do a testimonial, they're like, wait, now I've gotta try. And like, I can't figure out right. What to write on my Instagram about my own business. Now I've gotta figure out what to write about your business. Molly: I Diane: Yeah. so what is working for you from, I know you're like using your webinar as your entry point as kind of your sales mechanism. What is working for you from a traffic perspective at the Molly: Ooh, so many things. So before I start talking about what we're doing, I just wanna preface this with like, don't start with all of this at one time. We didn't, you know, we, we did, I always do baby steps, so it's like, okay, first I'm gonna try to tackle Instagram. Then I'm gonna try to tackle this once this is running, we can tackle this. So just, just gotta throw that out there. Cuz if you try to tackle it all at the one at the same time, it's gonna be a nightmare. Also I have a team. So keep that in mind, but, okay. So, YouTube is a, like, we just started it. So we're pretty low on followers still, but like we do get consistent sales from that. I, I think right now though, it's only like maybe one or two a month. It's pretty low, but it's a really [00:16:00] dynamite long term strategy. So that's why I'm putting a lot of time and money into YouTube. Cuz I just know, like I have several friends where, you know, if they do a launch they'll do you. Multiple six figures. It's like just from their YouTube so like, I definitely know it's like worth it to put the time in as far as like quicker strategies, obviously your email list is gonna be number one. That's like our absolute by far number one revenue generator. So on Mondays, we have a nurture email and that promotes our auto webinar. Tuesdays, we promote our YouTube video. The PS promotes the auto webinar Wednesdays. We promote our podcast and the PS promotes the auto webinar. And then if you go to YouTube, the videos promote the auto webinar. It's like a whole ecosystem. But as far as like quickly generating revenue again, email list and then TikTok and Instagram have been really, really generating a lot of traffic for us doing the reels in tos. One thing that's important, our second traffic generator is our Facebook group, Diane: which is what you teach as your kickstart as Molly: out, but yeah, it's our, it's our number two traffic generator. Diane: Let's talk about reels and tos. Where are you on the reals versus TikTok side of things? Are you a, I record one, I downloaded, I loaded on the other. Are you there completely two different platforms? I feel like TikTok is, is a very polarizing conversation for people. Molly: Yeah. So first of all, I'm gonna, I'm probably a very unpopular opinion. I really dislike Instagram. I do it. I do Instagram. Okay. But I find it to be the hardest platform to grow on by like, Landslide. And I get emails every day. I even sent out a survey to our audience. The number one platform they wanna learn is Instagram. And my theory is the reason people wanna learn it, get it going. Diane: And it's, and it's gone off a cliff. Like it's always been hard, but now they've done. Like every week they change something, which is fine, it's their platform. And we use it for free and they're [00:18:00] completely entitled to change it. Like, I don't wanna, I I'm not coming for that message, but you're right. It is hard work to be like, wait, what happened last week? Oh, like now all video is real. So I, now I have to think about everything that I post in these weird new formats. Molly: and whenever I say that about Instagram, everyone comes for me and they're like, well, I can grow on it. I'm not saying you can't grow on it. I'm just saying. If you put that same amount of time into another platform, you're gonna see your growth, like way faster, or maybe you're not looking at your data on Instagram because I dunno. Diane: so let's, go that you're not super team Instagram. So team Molly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Diane: what is what's working for you on Molly: Yeah. So here's what I do. And then I also wanna say, even though Instagram's hard to grow on, it does actually generate a lot of sales. So that's why I still do it. So I can't completely hate on that part of it. So, what I do is as of literally two weeks ago, they announce that you can actually auto schedule your tos reels and YouTube shorts. So I'm just gonna call this group of videos, short videos, because it's all the same dang thing, in my opinion. So what I do is I typically start, well, we, our goal is to do two to three of these short videos on every platform every day. Now, again, You don't need to start out like this. I started once a week, then I went once a day, you know, so. You don't need to do that crazy but what I do is one one day a month for two hours, I record 31 shorts, educational talking to camera, and one time a month for two hours, I'll record all the like trends, videos. We have like a trends database that my team keeps up. So I just go in and like make the videos is really easy. And then the third one, oh, tutorials, because for us tutorials just really crush it, but you have to find out like, what works for you, but that's really what we try to do. And so the trends can come from TikTok or reals. I find it really. Like I'm a data person. I find there's [00:20:00] no rhyme or reason. Like sometimes I'll do a trend from like a year ago and it'll, it'll like go viral. I'm like, I don't so I don't, I think that, I think it's really just a game of like trying a bunch of stuff and seeing what works for you and then doing more of that. But yeah, so basically I record all these in batches and then we schedule them on all the platforms and by the way, YouTube shorts is like literally getting us more views and. Followers than like my long form YouTube videos. So it's pretty interesting. Diane: Interesting. I haven't even looked at YouTube shorts. So have you gone viral because you said you'll do a trend and something will go Molly: Yeah, I think we're nine or 10 viral videos. And for me viral means, you know, having three or four times the amount of views that you would normally have. But the video that I did, this is kind of an interesting story. So I was like dabbling in TikTok a little bit. I had only done maybe five videos over the course of like two years. So basically nothing. Right. And then I really though was obsessed with TikTok, really studying it. Like I really knew I'm. This is the Periscope of 2020. Like this is like the platform that's going to help you really get ahead as a creator. So I obsessed over it. It studied it. And one night my husband and I were about to go out on date night and I'm like, I figured it out. I'm like, I'm gonna go viral tonight. like what? The ego? I don't know. Basically I found this like person who does similar stuff to me, competitor, whatever you wanna call them. And I noticed as I looked through their videos, that all their videos that went viral or did the best were this certain CAMBA hack tutorial. And I'm like, okay, well, that's interesting because like they do all the same stuff I do. So obviously this will work for my audience. So I picked a new CAMBA feature. I decided to do a little tutorial on it with my phone. And then there's this one guy on TikTok that has this series, like things I didn't know are camp believe, I didn't know this till I was thir in my thirties. So I took his little hook and I was like, I can't believe, I didn't know this Canva hack until today. So I took that viral hook and spliced it with like the viral Canva hack idea and that very first video, the one that I [00:22:00] egotistically was like, this is gonna go viral. It just hit quarter of a million views today. And the cool thing is not only did it go viral. Quickly, but the cool thing is once you go viral and if you make sure you're using the right hashtags, because if you search can hack, my video is one of the very first on the first page. So I'm actually getting evergreen traffic from that video for months. So I think it's interesting. People are like, well, I don't wanna waste time on a TikTok because it, you know, you make it and then it dies out if you do well and you rank it. Well, talk's a search engine. It's gonna keep sending you traffic. Diane: so interesting. So tutorials are where you've gotten viral, like nine times. Have they all been those kind of tutorials or have some of them in more talking heads? just before everybody in the audience goes and does like a Canva tutorial Molly: think you need to try what works for you. So the ones that have gone viral for me, I've had a few educational ones tutorials, and then the stitch one. So, actually today I have one that's literally I it's going viral. Like right now, let's see if it keeps going, but basically this girl made a video about how great Etsy is for hosting your digital products. And so I was like, that's interesting. I'm gonna look into this data. She shared, she made $15,000 revenue in a year Diane: Mm-hmm Molly: and so I was like, okay, like, that's not very much money. Plus I looked and like, there's a lot of Etsy fees, plus the taxes plus customer service, all the competition on Etsy. And like, so I basically stitched that video and was like, here's why I don't think you should be on Etsy. Like you should host your digital courses and products on your own website. And like, the conversation is. Wow. It's like one giant fight almost, but like as much as I hate that, it like really makes your video go viral. So you do wanna have, like you said, like a more polarizing conversation. I do keep all my videos very like on niche. And then I'll do like the occasional personal one, just because I feel like if people find your account and they're gonna scroll through and watch all your videos, and if you can't build that, no, like, and trust [00:24:00] like on a personal level, they're not gonna buy from you. So Diane: Amazing. Oh my gosh. I feel like. So many things. One final question. What do you wish people would stop doing in the course world? Maybe it's cringy. Maybe it doesn't work. Maybe it's both. Molly: Oh my God. I have like a million ideas in my head. the first one would be stop starting your course, with launching. Like, I really am like so passionate about that. I almost get like angry because I just see so many people wasting so much money. Okay. I thought of another one. Don't buy software for your course until you've made money from your course. I think, I don't know. I just see these people thinking like their first question to me is like, what software should I buy? And I'm like, that's not the right first question. Like they think if they put their course in software, it just sells and I'm like, it just doesn't work like that. So Diane: At that point, you don't even know what you need the software to do. And you're off there buying like Molly: yes, absolutely. I'm like good job. You until you've made like $10,000 sales, like you don't need course offer. Diane: yeah, Google drive is your friend. Oh yeah. Oh, so I know that there must be a resource somewhere in your world for people who are like, oh, okay. I might need to rethink my courses or, okay. I'm ready to do one, but I, I was planning to launch it and now I'm terrified. Molly: Yeah, so I have a free workshop, so it is an automated webinar. So I do teach you a lot of value. And then at the end, I do mention my course profitable courses, but it talks about how to find your course study or know if it's like a good idea, how to create the curriculum for your course, and then how to build that following and make sales, or, you know, this stuff would also apply to reviving a course, but it's profitable courses.com/. Diane: Perfect. I'll be sure to link it in the show notes as well. Well, to finish up, I always like to ask my guests the same two questions. First of all, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your Molly: Ooh, absolutely freedom of my calendar. Like [00:26:00] other than doing these guest podcasts, which I love, they give me so much energy. I have like nothing. I have like pretty much nothing on my calendar at. Diane: So you get to kind of plan your week. Molly: I'm just, I'm such a creative. And like, even if I have like, I'll have everything planned ahead of time, but let's say I'm supposed to record five YouTube videos and I'm like, Hm, I don't feel like it. So I'll just move it to another day and I'll, I'll work out what I feel like. And I, for me, I just, I like that. I get my work done faster if it's what I want to be working on. Diane: thank you for that clarification. I didn't want everyone to be like, oh, if I have a course, I never have to work again. Molly: no, no, Diane: Like, I'm like, oh, I don't wanna get into a passive income Molly: I work three to, I work three to five hours a day, Monday through Thursday slash Friday. It depends, but I do, I am also hard on taking my weekends off. So Diane: Amazing. Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entrepreneur? And you cannot say you have to launch your Molly: Yeah, no I won't. Man, worst advice. I would say. Like biohacker advice so, and I'm not saying it's all bad, but like, I just think, you know, there was a point where I had some mentors that were really obsessed with like, almost spending more time on like the biohacker stuff than on your business. And I think it's O like, I mean, I spent thousands of dollars on like, like this specific chair, because it's great. Or I don't know, or like, Those rings that would track your sleep and stuff. And then I'm just am like my focus, shouldn't be so much on that, that I'm like not focusing on my business. If that makes sense. I'm not saying it's like bad, but for me, I think it wasn't the right advice. I should have been focusing on other things in my business that were on fire Diane: Yeah. I feel like that's like, that's like that like 1% needle mover, right? When you are so good at what you do, you can no longer optimize. The business side of things, then [00:28:00] you, then you are like, okay, how do I optimize myself by like 1% or 2%? Molly: the absolute correct word that you just said optimized. Cause I'm not saying like, like, cuz I already am getting good sleep. I'm already drinking water. So yeah, it's the, it's the optimize. That's a good word. Diane: You're just looking for that, like teeny tiny little thing that that will move the needle. Right. And you've looked everywhere in your business, but you're right. I do think you, that's why we have like the 5:00 AM club and the like, oh, I fostered for seven days or whatever club, like, Ooh, I don't know. No one wants me that hangry. I think it's good for me or my business, but I love that one. We've never had someone even go near that as Molly: Well, I'm glad I could surprise and delight. Diane: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate you. this has been fab. So where can people find you to carry on the conversation? Like where are you on the socials? If people haven't been listening closely, Molly: So I do answer my Instagram messages. I feel like I poo-pooed on Instagram a little bit, but yeah. So it's at Molly M Kaiser, and then I'm also on TikTok at Molly Kaiser. So yeah, those would be the best, best places. Diane: Fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing all these little like advanced tweaks and tactics Molly: It's fun. I love talking advanced. I love it. Diane: Awesome. Thank you so much. Molly: thank you. It's been fun.