How To Sell In The DMs With Victoria Boyd

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Victoria. Boyd is a digital marketing pro we're talking a master's degree in it. And years of experience, she's passionate about making your socials sell with a surprising twist. She's not going to tell you to focus on engagement. Hey Victoria, welcome to the show. [00:00:15] Victoria: Hey, thank you so much for having me. [00:00:18] Diane: So let's just jump in with a quick intro to you and your business. A bit about your journey. [00:00:23] Victoria: Yeah. So like Diane said, I'm a marketer. I have a masters in internet marketing, which is like super fun to say I've worked in a variety of industries, including hospitality, all the way to automotive to course creators. You know, I have. Range of experience. So I've seen strategies that really work and kind of my specialty is actionable sales and marketing strategies. I don't believe that sales and marketing has to be as hard as people want to make it out to be. So everything that we will talk about will be super actionable today because that's what I love. [00:00:53] Diane: I like that. I liked it where we can see like the big picture of how the strategy works and then have the action that we can take to implement it. So social media, super overwhelming. These days, always a new platform we're being told. Be omnipresent. Make sure you engage. Be sociable, create killer content post every day, post five times a day. Now do reels. Oh, and don't forget to also monitor your DMS in case anyone talks to you. So when you said in your Instagram story or wherever I like stopped you for this, that traditional engagements no longer matters. I was like, who? I need to talk about that. That's cross one thing off the to-do list. So let's start with why doesn't it matter? [00:01:33] Victoria: Ooh, we're starting with a big question. We're really bringing out the teeth. So engagement kind of started as the strategy that was taught back in, like when did Instagram start? Like what, 2016. It started to really glow up 20 17, 20 18 around then. And it was all around this idea that you need to needed to build up this big audience, get to that 10 K number, which now. The link feature, so that doesn't matter anymore. And it was kind of like this belief that to build your audience, you needed to engage with them in hopes that they came back to you. Now I was really good at this. I truly did that 15 minutes a day, engaging with your target audience. And I'll be honest, I'm only at I think 4,000 something followers and I'm somebody that's, you know, a quote unquote expert in this have done it for years, all of that, but it never bought back the people that the experts promised sort of. And I also found that the people that were following me or coming back to my profile might not have actually been my clients anyway. So what I kind of started experimenting with a lot in. I'd say like 20, 19, 20 20 was actually doing lead generation instead of engagement on Instagram. So what I'm saying, lead generation, instead of engagement, I actually mean siting into people's CMEs. This isn't funny. And to somebody who seems like, Hey girl, I have this opportunity for you, nothing like that. Or that like Yahoo, finance situation, nothing like that. I mean like the same way you would engage with somebody as posts. You're just doing it in the dams. And typically I do this from stories because that's. The easiest way to sign into somebody who CMEs without feeling intrusive. And if that immediately made you feel like, oh, that's, that's a weird strategy, Victoria. No if somebody's profile is public, which if you're B2B, most people's profile is public. They're inviting you to DM them. They're inviting you to engage with them, especially if they are posting daily stories. So. You know, on engagement, like that engagement strategy that you've been taught that you've done for years, right? You're going to your target audiences profile, commenting, liking on a few of their feed posts, maybe sharing a reel for them, whatever you're doing to try to get into their notifications, which are. A sea of loss. If we're being honest, I've never looked at my notifications on Instagram, at least in the last two years. It's just not, it's not worth my time. To be honest. You are showing up in their DMS, which they are checking because money flows in their DMS. And as far as like signing it to somebody who CMEs from stories, there's a lot of easy ways to do it. Right. You can do it from a poll. You can do it from there. Story about their Starbucks [00:04:18] Diane: Um, [00:04:18] Victoria: say, oh my God, we have the same Starbucks order or what's in your cup today. complimenting them on their sweater and asking them where they got it. Like there's so many really easy ways start up that friendship start up that relationship in the DMS then to kind of future pace. You know what I'm sure we'll talk about later selling the DM starts by building that rapport. So that's what your first goal is with lead generation. [00:04:40] Diane: What I find and correct me if I'm wrong is when I'm replying to somebody's story, that's a different feel when you said, oh, I'm talking about engaging with people in the DMS. I was like, oh, is this just like modern day cold calling? [00:04:54] Victoria: No. [00:04:54] Diane: Right. But from the stories, you've got that in of, you're starting a conversation about something versus that Hagle. Do you want to buy my lady? [00:05:03] Victoria: Right. Exactly. So you are engaging with content that they've already put out kind of first and foremost, the other way. I've also DMD people, which hasn't worked necessarily as well, unless it's somebody that I know super engaged with my content already. And this sounds weird, but almost fan girls over content in a way, like we all know. Super fans and our follower base, if they've never really engaged with me, but I know they've liked my posts. And by engage with me, they've never liked DMD to me. That's what I mean. But I've seen them like, like my posts I've seen them, like my reels. I've seen them on my. Instagram lives, for example, them and say like, Hey, I know you follow me for a while. We've never connected. Like, tell me about yourself. How long have you been doing X, Y, and Z. I will bring it back to like what they do in their business. What is in their feed? What maybe I've seen them sharing stories. I will like cold email someone that way, but they're a follower already. I don't just cold DM somebody I'm coming from their stories or coming from a live video. [00:06:02] Diane: Right. Okay. so do you start from the same point as traditional engagement, like finding your clients? You know, you're always taught, like, look at who does similar things to you in parallel and who's following them. Search hashtags and all those sorts of things. So the traditional engagement element of finding potential client still stands, or have we been doing that wrong as well? [00:06:28] Victoria: well? it works for some businesses. It works for some industries. What I've been doing for myself and my clients is actually looking at my favorite clients, social media accounts, and engaging with the people that are engaging with. So I'm, DM-ing those people, I'm watching their stories because I love my clients. I want more people like my clients. So I'm going to the people that are engaging with my client's stuff. And that doesn't mean stealing my clients, people that just means trying to replicate my favorite clients and keep those clients like coming to me. And I will, if I'm really in a funk, go back to those traditional engagement, like seeking. Methods like thinking who would my ideal client be following and then see, who's engaging with them. I will, of course do that too. But I found that the highest ROI of this strategy comes from engaging people that are the most similar to my. Ideal client or people that I love working with, which I'm finding from people that currently work with me. What's also cool about that is especially if you've built up kind of a culture of your people sharing about you. So let's say you sell a course and you encourage your students to share when they complete a module or when they're on a hot seat call or when they're in a Q and a call or whatever, if they're doing that and they're kind of warming up their audience to you already. When you're kind of like starting to engage with those people, they kind of know who you are. They might not know where they know who you are from, but they sort of know who you are. [00:08:01] Diane: Yeah. They've got a bit of the note, even if they don't have the like, and trust, [00:08:05] Victoria: Yes. [00:08:06] Diane: Okay. we're find out people were looking on their stories. Are you following them? How do you track them? [00:08:14] Victoria: Ooh, that's a great question. So yeah, I follow them, which is a really unpopular opinion, but again, we don't want to come in like, Hey girl, we don't want to come in. Like we're cold messaging somebody, or like we're emailing them. And I just find it's easier to also stay in touch with them if you are following them. And as far as tracking them, I literally have a tracker. Yeah. Use in Google sheets or an air table, I've moved it completely to air table now, but I'm actually tracking them. I'm tracking things like the goal offer that I have in mind for them. So if I'm like this would be a perfect fit for this program. I'm literally like writing down. I would love to see her in X, Y, and Z, or she would be a great fit for. Blink blink. I'm also writing down notes about our conversation. So if I'm like, you know, I've noticed she's struggling with so on and so forth, I will jot that down I'm like, okay. She shared with me that she is making. Kombucha and we connected over kombucha. I will write down specific connection points that we have as well. And I do follow them back just because then I can turn on post notifications, which I do for my hottest leads. I know it sounds crazy to be having posts notifications on for a lot of leads, but if I really want to convert them, especially if it's a higher ticket person, higher ticket off opportunity for me, I will turn on the notifications. So that way I'm on top of engaging with them? when they post. [00:09:36] Diane: So. Found out people, we know what we're tracking them with. often are you touching base? Like how are you walking that line between super engaged with you. I want to get to know you. I want to build a relationship with, okay. Now I'm just stalking you. [00:09:51] Victoria: That's a really good question. I think naturally something with Instagram. You know, you're not always seeing the same people's things. So you're naturally going to miss responding to some of their stories, or naturally forget to respond to a DM. That's just the truth. Everybody forgets to respond to something or just double taps and forgets to actually send back the message. So it's not really something that I've ever [00:10:16] Diane: oh. [00:10:16] Victoria: I need to worry about or really ever had come up. Obviously trust your intuition if you're starting to feel like okay, maybe I. Feeling like Joe and you, and I'm really socking this person. Pull it back a little bit. Or if you're. Starting to feel like the conversation is a little weird back up, but I think that just naturally how Instagram's algorithm, isn't always showing you everything, no matter what your relationship is with that person, since the algorithm is very based on your relationship with the person, you will naturally miss stuff. So it's never really been a concern for. Especially if you're just responding to a message with like a cheer, like if you're just like, or a, not a message, responding to a story with like a, oh my God. Amazing congratulations. Or just like an emoji or something. It's still coming across friends first and not like you're stalking them. [00:11:06] Diane: Okay. So when we're thinking about now, we've built this relationship and we're DM-ing them and stuff. When do we slide in with some form of pitch? [00:11:15] Victoria: I like to tell my students every time that they're like, how do I do this without feeling weird? I tell them, you know, within the first two weeks you should be making some sort of a pitch. Two weeks or four touchpoints. So four touchpoints would be like four different conversations that you've started with them. weeks would be literally 14 days ish. You know, it could be 16 days, but I try to make some sort of a pitch, which kind of. It makes things faster and the pitch doesn't have to be paid. It could be like a, oh, Hey, you. shared with me that you're struggling with this. I have a podcast episode that I think you would absolutely devour or I have a blog post that you would love, or a freebie that, you know, would really solve this for you. [00:12:00] Diane: Okay, so we've sent them like a soft pitch. Like that feels like a soft pitch. We're not kind of going like, Hey, I would like you to buy my thing. Is the point to get them to sign up to your list and therefore be nurtured that way, or is the point of the dam to actually be like, here's the checkout link at some point in the DM conversation? [00:12:18] Victoria: I do a ton of here's the checkout link. I'm ready to see you inside my program. I do a ton of that and there's, I think there's different levels of pitching and your dams. There's that soft pitch of listen to this podcast episode, it'll solve your problem or listen to, or read this blog post it'll help you out. Big time. And there's also like these harder pitches of like, you are a dream client of mine sign on the dotted line, please. That's obviously not what I'm writing, I'm writing something like, Hey, I know that we have talked a lot about let me just use an example of, I have an accelerator program, which is like a group consulting program for like first time business owners that want to get into like service providers. Before that, which is, does not exist anymore. I had a course that was similar to it. The idea was the course would lead people into the group coaching program. So this is like one example. And I'll use another one for not such an upsell example, but for this example, I said something like, Hey Charlie, I have loved seeing you flourish inside of this program. I am opening up the doors to the accelerator accelerator, and I think it would be a really great fit for. Would you be interested? help you do X, Y, and Z that I know are your goals and it'll help you do it in a shorter timeframe because I'm more involved in your work that I am correct. So I've done things like that, as well as send that sent her the link, obviously much better spoken than what I just did. I've also sent messages for like my courses or my programs that are just like, Hey, look at you are a dream client. This would be a great fit for you. We've talked about X, Y, and Z in your business. I know you were struggling with. Whatever they're struggling with, which I've pulled from asking them questions from getting to know them from building a relationship with them, from them, trusting me from me, helping them. And I will kind of take everything that I know about them, which again, I'm, I'm tracking in a lead tracker. So. Measuring what's going on in their business to a certain extent. Of course. I don't know everything. Of course you have to read between the lines a little bit, but I'll basically say something like your dream client. I'd love to see you in this program. Here's how it will help you. And here's the link. What do you say? Are you in? And then if they ghost me, I follow up in 48 hours, literally set a reminder and say, Hey, we talked about this. are your thoughts? You know, it's totally cool if you're not into it. And if they're not into it, I down sell them. [00:14:43] Diane: I have definitely been sold really hard in the DMS very successfully. Like I'm the type of person who, if I don't have to have a sales call, that's fabulous. I've already researched you. I've stalked you. I know all the things, but some people. Like to take the time with a decision that I to think about it. I like to know a lot more detail about it. Are you transitioning them into a different conversation or are you having almost your full quote unquote sales call in the DMS? [00:15:12] Victoria: Everything in the GM's. I will do a sales call for like social media management or ads management, because the. Really important for me to know I'm going to work well with the person for a long period of time. Since most of my clients stay with me for years. But for the most part, I can convert whatever I want to in the DMS, unless I wanted the sales call. And if somebody asks me for a sales call, I'll do it. I love sales calls, but I also love not doing a sales call. And I love not doing a webinar or not doing a challenge. I think a lot of consumers these days, and a lot of whether you're B2B or B2C, they don't want to do a webinar. They don't want to sit for 60 minutes of fluff and then be pitched something they already know they want, they just want to check out blank. So in October, I launched two programs and I closed over. It's like $4,200 in my DMS. There were two small program. No sales called nothing. It was just voice messages back and forth. I think I sent one girl, a video call, just like, Hey, not a video call, but like a video of me talking to her. That was the whole thing. Like there was no, I didn't even have a sales page. I didn't have a sales page for either of those programs. It was a checkout link. It was here's how much it costs. Here's your payment options you in or you out. That's the whole thing. I'm not even making sales pages anymore because if I'm not running ads, why bother. [00:16:36] Diane: And how high ticket can you go with this? [00:16:40] Victoria: How high tickets you want to go? [00:16:42] Diane: I mean really high ticket. Like, can we go five figures, high ticket in the DMS. [00:16:47] Victoria: Absolutely. I've sold like contracts that have paid me over $30,000 in the DMS. [00:16:55] Diane: So now we've done all the things. We're friends. We've given them some resources, but now we're actually ready to do a much more defined [00:17:04] Victoria: Yes, much more defined pitch is a great way to put it [00:17:06] Diane: Okay. are comfortable in our conversation style. How do we ourselves into that pitch Killing the conversation, and just, you know, being that kind of, Hey, go buy my leggings person. [00:17:21] Victoria: Love it. Okay. So we both go to B2B. I know a lot of your audience is B2B. So what we can do and it really easy way to do this is I call it my pivot and pitch strategy. So what you do is you watch their stories. Let's say they're in the middle of a launch. Congratulate them on their launch, ask them how it's going again. You've built a friendship. So it doesn't feel like an interrogation. And if it does you, haven't built up the friendship you think you have, if you're feeling like you're interrogating them. So I'd say like, oh my God, congratulations on your launch. How are things going anywhere? You're stuck. They'll reply. It's going great. Whatever their goal is, maybe it's how they respond. I'll send something back like. Oh, my God. I'm so for you. Anything you're struggling with with it, you know, I'll ask them questions, I'll try to get some, something, anything that they [00:18:07] Diane: Can opening. [00:18:08] Victoria: with Yeah. And then they'll say something like, they'll say something like, oh, I'm really struggling with whatever. will give them a piece of advice that I would typically charge for. Like, that's the only time I'm giving them advice. then I'll say something like. Here's what you should do or here's how I would handle it. Or have you tried X, Y, and Z. Like, I will give them an action item. I will give them when they say, oh my God, thank you so much that worked. Or I love it. Or however they respond. I of course go from there often than not it's. Oh my God. I never thought about that. Thank you so much. Then I pivot into the pitch. So that's the only time I'm giving them free. True advice is when I'm ready to pitch that way again, they're like, oh my God, Victoria has my best interest at heart. knows what she's talking about. I got a quick win, whatever. They're feeling it'll be good feelings. There'll be good vibes at this point. So I Can say something like, oh my God, you're so welcome. I'm so proud of you for making it this far. I actually had a client who went through the exact same thing. She was struggling with X, Y, and Z blank, blank, blank, typically insert program offer title here. Now she's doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever the goal is or whatever the transformation is of the offer. I think you'd be a really great fit for it based on our conversations. Are you. Hearing more. Are you interested in hearing more is the most important thing permission-based sales. So I'm not just going in with a, Hey, you'd be a great fit. Here's the checkout link, you know, just going to put that here, I'm saying, are you interested in hearing more simple as that more often than not it's yes, it sounds great. If it's not right. now, I follow up in a couple of weeks or a couple of days. After their launch, maybe whatever, whenever it feels good, more often than not though, they're like, yeah. Tell me more. And then you send them what I call your offer articulation statement, which is super simple, super short title. One to two sentences on what the offer is. And only the key features. They don't need to know 10 modules and this and that. They just need to know the highlights and it's done. [00:20:12] Diane: And then, okay, so let's say you do that and they go quiet. How do you reengage from that point? [00:20:19] Victoria: I go back to step one, which is building a rapport again. [00:20:23] Diane: And you go back to the two weeks before you pitch [00:20:25] Victoria: Yup. [00:20:25] Diane: You give them a breather kind of [00:20:27] Victoria: Yup. [00:20:28] Diane: Okay. Wow. So where are people going wrong with this strategy? Because I know, yes. I do know that there are people out there who are talking about selling in the DMS. I've never heard it explained so clearly. And so practically without the engagement piece, I always feel like it's the engagement piece. And then when they're in your DMS, then you sell to them. So where are people going wrong in the DMS? What are the like red flags, whatever you do, don't do this. So people are going to go and try this strategy. What are the, like, don't be this person, [00:21:01] Victoria: So I think there's two things that people really do wrong. They wait too long to pitch, which eventually will lead them down the direction of being a friend. That of an authority to the lead. So that's why I kind of have this like hard rule with my clients. I'm like, Hey, if you weren't pitching in the first two weeks, you've lost the sale. They probably haven't actually lost the sale, but I like to inflict a little bit of that fear into them. That there's a little sense of urgency here. If you aren't making some sort of pitch, even if it's your first. Even if it's to your low ticket offer, even if it's to a blog post or a podcast lost whatever sale you have in mind for that person, has to be some level of a pitch. It can be your bigger pitch, if you're ready for it to be, or it can just be something like, shared their struggling with here's a solution. So people are waiting too long to pitch. That's the biggest thing. The second thing is they're giving way too much for free. Like I don't give away any advice in the DMS until I'm ready to pitch. [00:21:59] Diane: How do you transition that conversation? Because when you say to someone, oh, I see you're suffering, struggling with this. Here's a blog post. How do you make that? Not be an invitation to then come back and ask you all of their extra questions off the back of the blog post [00:22:16] Victoria: yeah. So if I send them something, I will give them a little bit of assistance there. I will say like, if they're struggling, let's say I wrote a paragraph on. Engagement versus lead generation and the blog post. And they have a question about it. I will, of course answer the question because typically it's already in the blog post and they just didn't read or whatever, or they just didn't understand the way I phrased it. So I have no problem doing something like that. But if they come to me and if they're like, Hey, I'm really struggling with this lead who asked me this question? And I don't know how to reply. I'm like, sorry, somebody pays me for that. I can't give you that advice. I word it much better than that, but, you know, I basically say, sorry, people pay me for this. If you want to pay me, I will help you to close that sale. And that's kind of how I do that, [00:22:57] Diane: It's kind of the subtle, like when someone else to pick your brain and you say sure. And then sending them the payment link it's it's [00:23:02] Victoria: right? [00:23:03] Diane: more gentle, right? [00:23:04] Victoria: Yup. [00:23:05] Diane: Wow, this is like a full system. A full workflow for people. I, I so appreciative. Will be listening to it intently and relistening to all of your tips and strategies. Do you have a template? Do you have a SWAT file? can they get the hands on from you? [00:23:21] Victoria: Yeah. So for free, I have the ultimate guide to selling on Instagram in 2022. And I also have the solid damps playbook, which is a low ticket, easy to get started with offer [00:23:32] Diane: awesome. We'll be sure to link both of those in the show notes so people can find them because I think. The episode is going to expand what people believe they can do. So to finish up, asked my guests the same two questions first up. What is the number one lifestyle boundary you have for your business? [00:23:48] Victoria: Ooh. I have been big time struggling with that lately. What's interesting about my business and my. I guess life balance Is I follow my husband's schedule, which is four on four off four on four off. So there's times where I'm working Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then taking off in air quotes because of course you can't totally take off, you know, Tuesday through Thursday or whatever, or Monday through Thursday or whatever. And I struggle with that a little bit of like, these are my off days. These are my on days. So I'm figuring that out. [00:24:23] Diane: Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an attorney? [00:24:30] Victoria: do what I say. I think that there's this weird trap that we've gotten into in the online space where we're following these like celebrity entrepreneurs. We've kind of gotten into this trap where we're following other people's templates in business. When I don't know about you, but I know I got into business to do things my own way, and I think we have fallen into a trap of not thinking for ourselves in business anymore. So something I've gotten really big into in 2021 was following my own path in business, doing what felt good, doing what felt right. And that. Massive growth because I was no longer following the, okay. If you want to have a membership, it has to have a course and a calls, hot seat calls, templates, yada yada yada. Or you want to [00:25:20] Diane: Um, [00:25:21] Victoria: quote unquote leveraged [00:25:22] Diane: oh [00:25:22] Victoria: it has to be a passive course that you should not be involved in at all. It just shouldn't be that way. It should be however you want run a business. [00:25:32] Diane: yeah. I think what you see as people need their jobs, because they don't like working for someone and then they build a business that essentially they then just land up working for. They've built it in a structure that just doesn't feel fun for them. And then they're like, well, why am I burning out? Well, congratulations. You have a job. Cause you built yourself a nice little cage and you're right. I think it has really been traditional to do the do as I do style of teaching. Versus let me help you think about your business. And then you do however you want to do, right. I mean, there is some benefit in following someone for super practical advice, like how to run a Facebook ad, I think is really practical advice. But knowing why you want to run a Facebook ad is kind of your responsibility. [00:26:19] Victoria: Yes. [00:26:19] Diane: agree with you on that one, huh? This has been such a fun episode to record. I feel like I need to go like. Take a million notes. I'm sure everyone listening will do that as well. I know people are going to want to carry on the conversation with you. I assume that your Instagram DMS is where you would like them to be sliding into to say, Hey, [00:26:38] Victoria: Of course, you can find that at Victoria H. Boyd on. [00:26:42] Diane: awesome. And don't forget if she is your ideal clients. You've got two weeks and then your friend zoned. [00:26:49] Victoria: Two weeks to pitch to me. And then I'm done. [00:26:52] Diane: We'll have to track from when the episode goes out, like the two week mark, like how many, like pivots into pitches you get from people who've been sliding into your DMS. [00:27:01] Victoria: know. I literally told you how to do it. I told you how to do it. [00:27:05] Diane: Awesome. This has been great. Thank you so much. And thank you for sharing so much of it. So openly. [00:27:11] Victoria: of course. Thank you so much for having me, Diane.