How Coaching And Certifications Have Changed With Laura Wieck

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Hey. Hey, today's guest Laura wick is a seven figure coach. Author and founder of body mind a new approach to coaching and business. Laura and I have been friends for many years. And so when I decided that I wanted to speak about this topic, I wanted somebody who I could trust to be objective. So today you get to eavesdrop on two old frightens discussing coaching's role in our online world, whether you are a coach have been coached or in a position where you might need to use coaching skills. This episode is for you. diane: Hey Laura. Welcome to the show. Laura: Diane. It's so good to be here with you. diane: I feel like this one has been a really long time coming, but let's start with a little intro to you and your business journey. Laura: Oh my goodness, where do I begin? I'm the founder of Body Mind. It's a new approach to coaching and business, and basically I run a coach certification and training that helps primarily wellness professionals. Own all of this magic that they're doing with their clients and transition into coaching. A lot of them have been coaching for years in some capacity, but often get stuck trading time for money. They get stuck with their modalities and thinking that what they deliver is this very specific in-person, hands-on session and they don't see that so much of. F so much of what they bring to their table is really their presence, their intuition, their ability to hold space, [00:02:00] and so we help them kind of package all of these magical things that they're doing and incorporate a coaching framework which allows them to get paid in a different way, while also delivering amazing client re. Results diane: And you were your very first own client, right? Laura: I was a book solid, burnt out massage therapist. I had clients booked out for months in advance, but I kept my energy, my time, my income were all limited and yeah, it was exhausting. You know, I was the person who would spend 30 minutes extra talking to my clients. I, I was the person who would always give advice and, you know, I'm reading all of the, you know, personal development books. I had actually done a coach training in 2008 and did not charge for coaching until 2012. It all changed when my husband and I were trying to get pregnant and a fertility doctor sat down and said, Hey, you know, it's $15,000 deposit. Plus medication to even attempt, you know, the most expensive form of ivf, which is, it's called IVF with ixi. And and by the way, Laura, you probably should work less to increase your chances of conception. That was the moment when like, my brain broke in a good way. Because up until that point, if I ever needed more money, if I, you know, if we had a flat tire or something need fixed around the house, I would just add more clients onto my schedule. And it was so big that it was like, You know, how, when am I gonna find the time? When am I gonna do it? You know, my husband with his job didn't have any capacity to make more. He was already working a ton, and so it just, it, it broke my brain in a really good way because it forced me to look at the simple and obvious things that I was already doing and learn how to [00:04:00] receive for the coaching that I was already doing. And really changed the way that I got paid. diane: Yeah, I think we underestimate and, and I think it's some people will be listening to this and be like, oh, I don't really talk to my massage therapist, but it's when you have a regular appointment with somebody in the wellness space, whatever that is. That relationship does build. It's like it is a very intimate relationship. I mean, you're lying there pretty much naked on the table, right? There's not a time for you to be like, oh, I'm a little shy telling you how my week was, right? And so I think it's very easy to forget that that element exists and that you're actually only paying for the massage. Laura: And it, you know, there's, I get that there are, there are people who are just like, I just want to go get on the table and I don't want to talk to you. However, and it's not just massage, right? This is a lot of wellness professionals, you know, like Nutritionalists and I'm sure a lot of, you know, coaches, it's like, I always joked that, you know, In order for people to let me touch them like I'm touching naked people, they had to let me in. And so the, the relationships that I developed and the way that I worked, you know, I built those connections with my client and they would tell you everything. But I don't think this is limited to just massage. I am sure Diane like. People tell you like, all this stuff that's happening in their freaking life, you know, like when you start looking at funnels and teams, you hear the, the stories of what's happening. So it, it was, it just made me realize that these simple things that I often took for granted were actually really valuable. diane: So let's define coaching, say versus consulting or mentoring, because I think it's really important that we just start with that clarity without any judgment about whether any of them are better than the other or anything like that. Just like from a definition perspective, Laura: For [00:06:00] me, coaching is about meeting somebody where they are. And helping them own honor and expand their natural gifts and talents. It's about helping them get clarity on their goals, what they desire. I think it's a lot about utilizing strengths they already have and bringing those out in their life, in their business, in their career, in their relationships in a way that is more fulfilling and aligned. So. When I think about coaching, it's again, I'm meeting somebody where they are, I'm, I am looking at them as a already whole amazing human being, and my job is to help them see what they can't see in themselves, and then create the plan and take the action to make that dream, that goal real. Now, that being said, I run a coach training company, so I do land in the, in the area of consulting and mentoring. So mentoring to me is more of like, I did that. Let me tell you my path and what worked for me. Let me show and share with you some skills and some things that were helpful for me when I had that specific goal and I was reaching for that. Consulting, I think is like, I am an expert in this field. I have done a bunch of research. I have the theory, I have all these tools, and I'm gonna tell you the path that you need to take in order to reach your goals. And I think I, I have a big beef online right now and I think this is where you and I might share some, some commonalities, but like what we see online today is coaching, I don't think is coaching. At best it's consulting and mentoring. But at worst, I think it's a lot of manipulation. I think there's a lot of toxicity in the coaching space. The whole idea that I'm just gonna give you five steps in your life is gonna be perfect, and you never have to risk [00:08:00] rejection or failure or putting yourself out there. Like all of that is rooted in supremacy culture. All of that is rooted in disconnection. I think the beauty of coaching and what I love about it is helping somebody see the fullness of who they already are. diane: And I think at the other end of the spectrum, then letting them go. I think that's the thing in the coaching industry for me that I find really difficult is people who stay with coaches for years and years and years and worse, the coaches who allow them to do it. Laura: Yeah. Where it's like the coaches who are like, I need to figure out a next offer so that this person stays with me for another five years, another 10 years. Like being able to grow and move beyond is it's beautiful. You know, like I love seeing our members grow beyond body mind. I love seeing my team members. Grow beyond our relationship because it means that they're evolving and doing their work. diane: And let's just hit on one controversial point. Where is the line between coaching and therapy? Because I don't know that everyone respects that line. Laura: I think that there is a difference between somebody going into a trauma response where they need a therapist, somebody who can help them look at the past, you know, go through and reframe and process things that have happened in the past. So anytime somebody goes into that trauma response, I am there to just support and hold space for them and get them the, the resources and the support that they need. I think it is important as a coach to be trauma informed, to know where the line is. I understand that when people, this happened on my massage table, let me just say this. People would like start talking about things and experiences in the past. But there's a difference between when somebody's talking about it [00:10:00] versus being in it when somebody is in it. I am no longer coaching if somebody is using a past experience to draw information and insights as to how to move forward. Okay. There are things that we can do and work with there I think it's important for coaches to be trauma informed and understand where the line is. But I have a big beef with self labeled trauma informed coaches cuz I feel like they are diving right into trauma and that can often be really dangerous. when people market the trauma informed on the front end, you're gonna get people who are very engrossed in their trauma. So again, I think it's important as a coach to be trauma informed. I just. When somebody is like, I'm a trauma informed coach. All I hear is you wanna hear my shit and create a really weird codependent relationship, that's probably not gonna be helpful for either of us. diane: With that very firm line and that risk, Because I think a lot of people have trauma in their life. Do you think everybody should know how to coach, not be a coach, but should everybody have coaching skills? Laura: so I believe that anybody who is in a service based business where you are, Connecting and communicating with people. I think that you need to understand the coaching framework. You need to understand where the boundaries are. You need to understand how the conversation in itself is just as important as the technique, the modality, the service that you provide, because the conversation is how you build connection. It's how you build trust and safety. It's how you. Sell. It's how you market the conversation is a vital part of any service-based profession, especially people who are working, you know, very closely in a very personal setting with their clients. So I believe that understanding how to use a coaching [00:12:00] framework, how to meet somebody where they are, and how to, you know, get clarity on their goals, how to move them forward, how to not project. Your shit onto them. How to understand, I mean, consent is a big part of coaching, and I think a lot of people who are kind and compassionate and wanna help often jump in and start giving solutions before they've even gotten consent. Now, what that does to your clients is it makes their head feel full. It makes them feel like they have information, but they have not made a choice or a commitment to even wanna solve that. And so this is that area where. Well-meaning folks are crossing the line, the client feels full, but they don't take action. The service provider is going above and beyond and probably getting a little resentful because they're not getting paid for this extra advice, and then the client doesn't follow through. So understanding that the, the conversation, the communication is part of the framework and. our Coaching framework is about understanding how to give voice to the body. And so to know how to do that in a way that keeps you in your lane, that is ethical, that is not jumping into trauma, that is Holding the space for the client to be curious and start to to pay attention. And it, that little nuance of how to ask a question or how to. Make a reflection how to even invite somebody in to be more connected to themselves. It's so subtle and so powerful when you have a coaching framework under it. diane: Maybe you could give us an example of where you use your coaching skills in day-to-day life, and then maybe you can talk about how you talk about coaching skills to the people that you are mentoring. So when you're more in that mentoring state of mind or in that consulting state of mind in your certification program, [00:14:00] I know it's a bit meta because your certification program is in coaching, but you are not in a coach role in that moment. Laura: So right now I am raising a beautiful three and a half year old son. And one of the things that I'm really mindful of he's a little bit young for me to be quote unquote, coaching him. And I'm really mindful of not projecting his emotions or feelings being good or bad. And I'm very careful to let him explore and find trust within his own body. A simple example of that is he loves to climb. Now I'm a parent that I'm okay if he's climbing on stuff that might not be your jam, but for me, it's okay. And I usually don't sit there. I I do not say, be careful or Don't do that, or, you know, be safe. I usually let him simply climb. And I'm more would say, make sure to trust your body. Does that, you know, are you. Like I am just watching him now, of course, if he's gonna like lean over and you know, hit his head on something, I will intervene. But I generally let him follow that. I also do, you know, a lot of reflecting for him because a little body he's processing and learning what these things called emotions are. So instead of like, don't cry or don't be upset, which I hate as a parent, I'm generally like, that sounds like, or it sounds like you're sad. It sounds like you feel upset and just reflect the emotion to him and. Let him have his moment. Now my son is still learning how to talk. So really right now it's a lot of reflecting, a lot of holding space. My husband obviously, I think a lot of people step into coaching and they're like, I'm gonna coach my partner. I'm gonna, you know, don't consent. [00:16:00] Consent, consent, consent. You know, usually it's like, do you want me to be your wife or do you want me to be your coach right now? And I always let him choose. And you know, sometimes it's like, Hey, take out the trash. The other times if he is open to coaching, it's a more along the lines of, you know, what is the goal intention here? And what opportunities, you know, what are some ways that we can move towards this together? I'm also, even when I meet people, so I, I work at a co-working space. I just love to, to listen, you know, to ask questions to, when I meet somebody and they share a bit about themselves, I just love to, you know, reflect their values. Like, oh man, it sounds like family is really important to you. It sounds like you're really passionate about. X, Y, z and it's so funny just in taking that time to pause and see somebody for this thing that makes them, them, it, it makes a big difference. It's, diane: here's the big question. to certify or not to certify. Now I know this is controversial and I know that you offer a certification program, but I also know that you are very capable of walking pros and cons lines very objectively. So I feel very safe in asking for a well-rounded, Answer to the To certify or not to certify. Question Laura: It's important to remember that there is this skill of coaching and the profession of coaching. I think that there are a lot of people out there that claim the profession of coaching without having the skillset to back it up. And when we have been shown these past couple years that coaching is basically advice giving, I think sometimes. The real depth of what you have to offer gets missed, and it creates [00:18:00] a feeling like you are carrying your client's responsibilities or you're, you're carrying the responsibility of client outcomes and results on your shoulders, which can create a very heavy and overwhelming business in the end. So with that said, I think if you are going to be a coach, it is important that you understand and have the skills. That match the profession. With that said, yes, I run a certification. So adhering to a certain set of guidelines and competencies that have been mapped out, I do find to be important. I. I also recognize, and I think this is something that I wrestle with, that historically a lot of education and certifications have marginalized, have been, have impacted negatively marginalized communities. So I am very mindful of that. I also think that the way the industry is going, that consumers are now very aware that there are good coaches and bad coaches. So it's not necessarily like, yes, we do the certification to, to show that you have done your due diligence in our certification. It is designed to meet all of the ICF competency competencies and standards. We are in process of our ICF accreditation. We also have a sales training. We have creating the container of support. We have a lot of personalized support, so ours goes above and beyond just icf. That being said, I think this is like you have to do your due diligence and make sure that you have, you have the skills, you have the professionalism. You know, for me, being a professional coach is you are consistently doing your own work. I don't know how many of us know the coaches online that say one thing and do another. diane: Never can't imagine. Instagram isn't real. Laura: What? Yeah, so, so I think I'm not attached to, [00:20:00] it has to be a certification. I do think things are moving in that direction. So that is a personal choice that the person has to make. diane: Yeah, I think it's an interesting one that it is moving there almost from a consumer protection perspective. I mean, two of the best coaches I've worked with, I'm pretty sure are not accredited in any way, but they are naturally gifted. But I think I have also had some coaches who have. Been really poor examples of coaching who have potentially had negative impacts on me and so I get where you might want that certainty that this person has studied something, that if something goes horribly wrong, you could go back to ICF and say, well, you certified this person. So I do get that. But I do think it's a shame for the people who are. Truly genius natural coaches to need the quote unquote certification. Laura: You. Yeah, it's, it is a fine line and I wanna say like we have, like I teach the coach training and then if you want to go and do the full certification, it's available. So we have opportunities where if you don't wanna do this certification, but you wanna learn the skills we teach it. Because I think that the communication piece is really important. It's so subtle cuz I get that our clients come in and they're like, just tell me the question that I have to ask and give me the order and I'll follow that. Session one, we do this, session two, we do this and that's great and we actually have a bunch of resources that our clients can use with our clients for that reason. But that is not what makes an excellent coach. So there still is a framework and a structure to it that I love to teach, but it's, and again, this is like, how do you meet the client where they are? How do you hold the space for their own introspection so that the, the conversation and the, the program and the [00:22:00] container is all moving in the direction that they want, where it truly is client led, you know, it's. It's so hard for me to hear, you know, people are like, sell the big massive group coaching program when you have no idea how to actually coach when you're telling everybody to do the exact same damn thing. Because that's not coaching. You have to take the process and then meet the person where they are and, and let them decide and navigate the path. Now again, I come in at certain points where I am a mentor. I am a consultant. And so I'm really clear, like if I'm on a group coaching call and somebody is saying something and I'm like, I just need to tell you what to do here, I explicitly say, is it okay if I step into a consulting role right now and just tell you the answer? Answer here. diane: And I think actually that's what's happening on a lot of the, like you mentioned, the group programs and sometimes you're in the group program, and I'm gonna pick on copy because it's the most obvious example. People will say, this is the copy coach in the program, or the Facebook ads coach in the program. And actually, they're critiquing your work and helping you write better. They're not coaching you really in any way. They're much more in a consultant service provider relationship. And I think that's also creating some confusion for people it's funny, I'm the other way around in that I will say to people, I'm a consultant, not a coach, because I want to tell you what to do. And so for me, I usually ask for consent when I'm gonna coach someone. So kind of like my baseline is I'm here as your consultants. However, and especially if I'm working with a team, I really do have to step into that coach role of actually being the neutral party in the situation and helping each person. Maybe in the same situation. I've got two people talking to me about it, and I can't be a consultant in that space because I can't choose sides or anything like that. So for me it's, it's almost the flip of you where you have to be like, Hey, can I [00:24:00] consult? I'm gonna be like, Hey, do you mind if I coach, or do you mind if I reflect something back to you? Laura: Well, two things. I always ask for consent, even if I'm coaching. Even if they're like scheduled call, they get on and they share and they're okay. Well, are you open to some, some coaching around this today? So one just that the, the practice of consent, it's like another way to ask this that I like to ask is like, what support would be helpful for you today? Because that gives them agency to ask for what they need. The second thing is I love that you just make it clear. I think this is the other piece of why I do, again, it doesn't matter if it's certifi certification language or not. I think it's clearly defining roles, having agreements that tell people the expectations of how you're showing up, where the boundaries are. What you expect of them. Like all of this is about being a professional coach and that is part of that skillset to clearly define the container and how you're going to show up. diane: So many things to think about. Okay, let's, we're gonna simplify it right now. What is one thing that you wish everyone knew about coaching? Laura: When you are held by somebody who genuinely knows how to coach, and you are able to do the introspective work to see what is already inside of you, it is such a gift. I love coaching. I love that moment when somebody's just like, oh, I had it here all along. Like, that's my favorite diane: yeah, I like, I like experiencing that moment, as the coachee. So let's say the somebody's like, this is interesting. I feel like I could ask better questions. I could be a better coach to whatever my client is, whatever service I'm providing my kids, whatever. Do you have something that they can use to get them started that isn't like a full program? Laura: I have a free guide that is five advanced [00:26:00] coaching skills that I think every service professional, wellness professional should have. Just to really help you see the possibility of bringing a coaching framework into your work. Starting to think about how coaching can really support you, support your services, support your clients. It is really subtle. And it is just so amazing. It really is. diane: Okay, , to finish up, I always ask my guests the same two questions. First of all, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Laura: My number one life's, oh man, right now it's with my son. Spending time with him is my number one priority. I work three days a week right now, so Wednesdays and Fridays are my days with my son. diane: Amazing. Three day week. Woo. There's a big push for the four day week over here in the UK at the moment, so I don't know what people would do if they had a three day week. Laura: I gotta tell you like it's the healing that goes with that is insane to really hold that boundary. diane: Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you have been given as an entrepreneur? Laura: This is fun. I gonna go back to what I said earlier. I did my first coach trading in 2008 and I got advice from my accountant, old guy, no idea what coaching was, who told me, just sell massage. Nobody knows what coaching is. That is why I did not actually charge for my coaching for another four years. diane: It's funny how many innovative people I know have a story of where they had this idea. And then didn't act on it for ages because it didn't exist. And then suddenly we all started talking about Blue Ocean and you had all the tech startups and stuff, and so now suddenly it's like, I can't do this thing because everyone's doing it. I could only do something that's completely new. But it's so true. I wonder how many ideas we lost to the advice to just stick to what everyone's doing. Well, this has been [00:28:00] delightful. Where can people find you on the socials to carry on the conversation? Laura: On Instagram it is at laura Wick, w i e c k. And then Facebook is Laura Wick the Body Mind coach. diane: Amazing. Thank you so much. This has been very Laura: thank you so much Diane. I always love hanging out with you