Building An Anti-Social Strategy With Holly Haynes

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, you know, Every time Instagram goes down or Facebook ads get more complicated. You're going to be lost of social media posts telling you not to rely on social media with zero sense of irony. Well, today's guest Holly, Marie Haynes has more of an inkling than most. On what it feels like to lose that account that you lovingly tended for so long, but while she lost her account, her business carried on just fine. So we're going to dive into her anti-social strategy. Hey Holly, welcome to the show. Holly: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Diane: So let's kick off with a little intro to you and your business journey. Holly: Yeah. So, my name is Holly Haynes. I'm in Columbus, Ohio. I actually started my business three years ago in January of 2020. the piece that people don't typically see is I have a 22 year corporate strategy career. So I worked for Fortune 500 companies, really helping them on pretty significant strategic projects running multimillion dollar teams and projects and sort of all the things. And, you know, got to a certain point in my career where I was like, I just don't, I don't know if this is it, right? So one of my favorite questions to ask is, can you keep doing what you're doing for the next 10 years? And my answer was like, no, I don't even need to think about it. No, this is not it. I also at the time had twins who were in kindergarten twin girls, and I was just like, I don't know. I feel like something's missing. So I sort of went down this path of like, I wonder if I could, you [00:02:00] know, start my own business. Like I have the business background, which most people don't. So how, like I could probably do this. So I actually did the opposite of what most do, and I hired a coach first. So like out the gate we're like negative 10 grand, like, okay, let's do this thing. And then the pandemic hit the, the us and so, I'm in this like year long program. I'm like ready to start my business and then the world like. Literally starts to fall apart and I was like, maybe this is the wrong time. Like I can't do this. What's happening? Long story short, I decided to start a podcast to sort of build a community first and try to understand like where can I best help and serve? And started sharing behind the scenes of, okay, well how am I building a business while working full times now in the middle of a, you know, worldwide pandemic with my twins in kindergarten, learning from Zoom, like, how is this actually working? And I was just sharing behind the scenes and it took off so, I sort of went from there and I built our product suite that exists now based on what people were asking and what my area of expertise are. It sounds simple when I say it that way. I mean, it's been an interesting three years, but that's kind of how we got started, Diane: Yeah, and nothing sounds simple about the pandemic plus the corporate job plus, especially with a corporate job going hybrid. So like the corporate job sounds so stable, but the reality of corporate in those days wasn't built for work from home. So one of the things that I know. When you were building this community, a lot of it also resided on social media. And I speak a lot about contingency planning and I think a lot of us feel like it's not gonna happen to us or it's not that big a deal. And very few people actually know someone who's had a big account and then lost it. So I'd love to hear that story if you don't Holly: Yeah, so my social media story actually has two parts. The first part is I knew going into [00:04:00] scaling this business the way that I wanted it to turn out that I. You know, social media is a powerful tool and you should use it, but I couldn't use it the way people were teaching. So at the time they were like post 17 times on Facebook and share 27 stories on Instagram. I couldn't do that because I was in meetings all day and when I wasn't in meetings or trying to figure out, you know, how to teach my kids to read because. They weren't in school. So I just had a different priority going in of like, I need to figure out how to use social media, but I need to figure out in a way where it's not me just trading time for time on this app. So we'll get into that part. That's like sort of the first background is going in. I knew I needed a different strategy. Long story short, I came up with that strategy and ended up building my account to about 15,000 followers, and we're in the middle of, I have a, a mastermind and we were in the middle of our retreat, which is a pretty big weekend. People follow along. It's super exciting and one of my team members is like Holly. Have you checked out your Instagram lately? And I was like, no. Why? And like, it was completely gone. Just like disappeared, gone, like, nothing's there. It was like, this doesn't exist or can't load, and then it, you know, Instagram's like, We've taken down your account because of X, Y, Z I don't post very what do you call it? Like, I don't know. I'm very by the book, like I'm not posting like spicy things. So I knew it was a mistake. We logged a case, whatever. It ended up coming back in about. A week, I think. But then it hap it happened again just recently. About two months ago, the whole account went down again and it didn't come back like completely, didn't come back. We actually started over. And so the ironic thing is, is the first time that it happened, I was like, I really gotta teach this because I think so many people put all their eggs in the social media basket and it is a powerful tool and it can work for you. But [00:06:00] it can disappear in a second. And then like what do you do? Like, I mean, I think just earlier this week, Instagram was down. Or you know, the Facebook algorithm changes or we have AI now, like, you know, pulling into the picture, like something is always changing. And when you look at the statistics, you spend all this time creating content and posts and. You know, it's like 3%, maybe 5% on a good day of your followers actually see what you're posting. So it's a smart business move to use social media in a way where it's repurposed content. So that's what we ended up doing. So I use social media. I post on social media. 95% of it comes from somewhere else. It's all repurposed from. Most, mostly for me it's from a podcast, but it's all repurposed from something that I own. It's an email, a podcast, a blog and it takes a minute to come up with a strategy. And so I think people get nervous cuz they're like, well it's so much easier to just write a post and put it up there. Yes, but it could totally disappear. And by the way, that post might be really good, so why can't you use it? And like, 10 different places so that it works for you, right. Instead of just, you know, sending it out into the social world and just, you know, waiting to see what happens. And so it really was coming up with a strategy that worked for us, but, you know, respected your time as well. Diane: So what was the impact to your business? So it goes down the first time and comes back versus, okay, the second time that you lost it and you had to start from zero. Did you see any impact on, let's say revenue lines or leads or like what did that feel like from a business perspective? Holly: Yeah. So the first time it went down, I mean, I won't lie and say that I didn't panic cuz I was like, what's happening? But we just switched gears and we're like, okay, we're just gonna use email. And we ended up having like a 10 k weekend because we were selling. Yeah. Behind the scenes and used email and people were paying attention to [00:08:00] email because they couldn't find me anywhere else. Diane: So the first time you were actually in a launch, Holly: Yeah, it's ha. Both times I've been in a launch. Yeah. Just for fun. Yeah. Diane: Excellent. Okay. Holly: Yeah. And so then out of that came, I actually created a program called Antisocial School. So I would say that's a benefit of what came out of it. Cause I was like, I really gotta teach this. Right? And I think that goes back to listening to the questions that people ask you cuz they're like, well, how does that actually work? What do you actually do? And I was like, okay, well let me, let me share So then the second time it went down, we were actually launching ironically anti-social school, which I felt like at the time was like the universe telling me, Holly, you have to teach this because now you're launching a program, talking about not using social media in your account disappeared. So we started a new account, but we didn't do it. We didn't start a new account for like a month. So we were offline for about a a month and really leveraged our podcast and email. And we, we have seen no change. None. I would, I would say, if anything, it's increased business because I have a whole new program about, you know, how to use, how to build your business without being reliant on what the algorithm says you should or should not do. Diane: Yeah, I mean I'm definitely one of those people who say, I assume that like social media will go away like in a heartbeat. So I have like a Zap that's set up so that anything I post on Instagram, maybe not the pictures, cuz they all live in Canberra, but literally every caption just automatically goes to a Google like sheet for me. Just just in case. But when you were describing. You know, the, the people are saying she have to post like multiple times a day and on all these platforms and that kind of overwhelming your scenario. I am child free and did not have a corporate job at the beginning of the pandemic, but also had zero interest in being on social media in that way. That's super draining to me. So I think for people who are thinking about this, we have the contingency plan element of being able to [00:10:00] exist without. Social media, you know, there's all the rumors about TikTok and is it Montana? That's already banded. Who knows how they're gonna, how they're gonna police that. But anyway, and then there's the element of, hey, I just don't want to be, or I can't be on social media in that capacity. So for those two audiences or listeners in the audience, what is the antisocial strategy? What does that look like? What are the elements that we need to think about? Holly: Yeah, so the first thing that I like to say is I like to figure out a home base. So, and then your home base can be different depending on what you like to do. That's not social media. So for me, I would argue, you know, everyone should pro should have an email list. So it could be an email list, it could be a podcast, it could be a blog. It's somewhere that, like your long form, like multi-paragraph content lives. And then you have to have a thing that's like inviting people to the home base. Cuz if you're not on social media, like you're running a business, you have to put yourself out there somewhere, right? So you have to think about, well, where are my people hanging out that I can share where I'm hanging out? Right? Like it's, it's like networking 1 0 1. But to do Diane: to invite people to a party, Holly: Yeah. Invite people to your house. Right. I always say like, if you, you know, run a community, it's like your house. You have to, you have to extend the invite for them to find you. I wish that people would just, you know, organically find you and come join you. And in some cases they do, but for the most part, you have to put yourself out there. But when you put yourself out there, you know, you have to have something that you want to offer. And a lot of times you hear people talk about freebies or lead magnets or whatever. I, my personal opinion is that that game is old. People know that, you know, if they request something that. They're gonna get a pdf. I'm really not in the game of like wanting to read a pdf. Like I want somebody to tell me something that's actually going to be helpful and that is going to [00:12:00] answer the question that they're marketing. So I say, yes, you need a lead magnet, but you need a lead magnet that's going to get a transformation that's going to help the person, like on day one. So for us, we actually, we created a private podcast. Cuz I love podcasting and it's, you know, five episodes on how to create your anti-social strategy. It's different. It's gonna help you, you're gonna get the answers of, of what that looks like. So you have to have a home base and then you have to have something that's going to attract the person to want to learn more about you. And it has to be good. It can't be like a Canva template with. Three steps on it. Like it's gotta be, it's gotta be good. Like the, you know, people are like, well the market's so saturated. I'm like, it is saturated, but how many people are actually good, right? Like, so stand out. And you could do that very easily. And then after you do that, I like to say, you need. Really two systems. So one is a, you know, a client attraction system. So what are you doing every single week? I would even argue every single day to put your thing out there. For me, it's been podcasting. I also use Pinterest. Pinterest is not social media. It's a search engine. You can schedule your time, which I love. And then you can dabble in email and blogs and SEO and sort of all of that. And so what does that client attraction system look like for you and how are you giving it attention every single week? Most of the time it's one thing. So like for me it was podcasting. I think I spoke on 300 podcasts last year that we're not mine. So that's what I decided to go all in on. When I say that, people are like, well, there's so many podcasts and you know, is anyone gonna listen to me? I can't remember the statistic, but it's like if you have like 50 episodes, I think you're in like the top 5% podcast because most people don't follow through. So if you can find a podcast that has, you know, a decent amount of episodes, they're gonna have super fans that follow them. I call them micro [00:14:00] influencers. And those micro influencers are 22% more likely. To purchase or download from that person because they are their super fans. So you don't need a really big audience to make a big impact. You just have to be really consistent about putting yourself out there. If you don't have a podcast, you can be on someone else's podcast. You can dig into blogging, you can dig into Pinterest. SEO has been really helpful for us. And then the last piece is, you know, what's your repurposing plan? So again, if you spend time writing a three paragraph email, that's amazing. Well, let's break it up into 10 different pieces of content, right? So you can, you know, have a reel on it. So if you are doing social media, like take that email. Do face to camera, read the email, make it exciting. You could do, you know, send it to Pinterest, you could do a podcast on it. Like what is your repurposing plan look like so that you are spending time on content that's educating. And then you're putting it out there in a way that's attracting the right person. So social media for us is like the second act, I like to say it's like the sidecar. So if you look at my Instagram, it's like 95% repurposed from our podcast or interviews that I've done. And they're just like little tiny snippets cuz that's what people consume. it's not me creating hours worth of content. I spend my time, you know, on our podcast and then we recreate it. Diane: So your social media is kind of like, like the trailer, like before your main event. It's like, Hey, you should come and come forth and look at this. So at least if ev, if that goes away completely, you still have the main event. Holly: Yes, exactly. Diane: and I think these days, you know, social media has, it's, it's got so many different quirks around like the algorithm also, like anybody can report your account, you know, who knows what was happening in the background with yours. You've [00:16:00] got the hackers who are then taking the bigger accounts and creating fake ones or trying to hack your account. We've had some examples on the podcast and I think. What happens between those big events? So you'll hear about somebody losing something and then there's this lull where you just get back into that comfort zone of like, let me just throw this on social media. Let me throw this on social media. And we forget until the next big one. And so I like your antisocial consistency. Holly: Yeah. Diane: Like it doesn't, it's not like I don't believe in social media, it's just like social media has this like supporting. Role Holly: Yeah. It's a supporting role. Exactly. It's like a, I always say it's like a magazine, so if you hear me talking about a topic, I've strategically thought about the topics that I wanna teach on, and then they're repurposed. You know, on our Instagram, so people see those and then they sort of work together. So it's almost like a slowdown to speed up strategy where you have to think about what do I wanna be known for? What's the topics that I wanna teach? Where am I gonna teach them? Maybe it is a podcast, maybe it's speaking in a group, you know, maybe it is a Facebook community or something like that, which is sort of social, but also a community. Like how, what is your networking plan to get yourself out there? And then when you're having these conversations, you can very easily say, you know, I can only cover so much in 20 minutes. So you can go grab this free resource, you know, I set it up to really help you do X, Y, Z. Take a look at it and let me know what you think. And then it's just a very organic conversation and then the content on your social supports that conversation. Diane: Yeah, I think , we've overcomplicated it over the years. I think we're seeing a lot of change in that landscape. Do you see, when you're talking to people, a change in the attitude towards social media? Holly: I think it depends. I feel like personally I have a really healthy relationship with social media because I'm not on [00:18:00] it very often. So if you asked me, my opinion would probably be different than somebody who's like, I don't know what to post. I don't know what to share. Like, I feel like if you're running a business and you're waking up and you're like, oh my gosh, I have to post on social media today. Like, you have the wrong business strategy because there are. There's so much more you can do behind the scenes where you're not reliant on posting a story. And so I think for me personally, also because I have young kids, I was like, I don't wanna create a business where I have to be tied to my phone twenty four seven. I also think in the economy that we're in, and I what I always say, like, I've only had a business in the middle of a pandemic, a bank crisis, or I don't even know what we're in now. Like you have to have a solid plan behind the scenes. It it, you're not gonna last through all the ups and downs of entrepreneurship if you are just relying on what you're posting. Even people with, you know, millions of followers have something behind the scenes that is supporting that. So I think, you know, when it comes to, you know, your opinion on social media, I just wanted it to be fun. Like, I didn't wanna have to feel stressed about it. And if I have time to be on it, great. If I don't, it's no big deal. And I actually found the days when I'm on it less and then I come back, people actually pay more attention because they're not on it all the time. And they're like, oh, I wonder what she's doing, like what's happening behind the scenes? And then they tend to ask more questions. Then you're having more conversations. And so I think, you know, it's worked, it's worked out for me personally because I can very clearly set boundaries around when I wanna be online and offline. I always say like, if you want an answer quick, like email me because I hate having a disorganized inbox. But if you DM me like it might be two or three days cuz it's just not, I just don't spend a lot of time in that, in the app. Diane: Yeah, I think we should take that like sound clip of like, if [00:20:00] you feel like if you've just woken up and you feel like you need to be on social media, you've got the wrong business model. I feel like that should be like everybody's alarm clock. Holly: Yeah, I always say social media is not a business strategy. It is a tool. It is a tool in the toolbox. So, you know, really having a clear, like do you know who you serve? What are like, what are you educating on? What are your pillars that you teach on? Where are you pointing people? Like, what is your home base like? Really thinking through that strategy is gonna help you attract the right person and you're gonna have a way that you can help them get a. You know, a win a result and then that's gonna lead to sales. Diane: Yeah. I think it's really important to remember that people who are selling you that social media is the solution, are usually people selling you a solution to social media, Holly: Yeah, and I mean, like I said, I use social media, but if you're like, if you're teaching how to make reels, have a guide that teaches people how to make reels, that's not reliant on you posting reels on social. I'm sure that you would post reels on social if you're teaching how to make reels, but you probably also have an email list. You could probably also kill it on Pinterest, right, and repurpose those reels to story pins. Like there's lots of different ways that you can sort of extend your reach beyond just one place. Diane: So if you could only tell every single business owner one thing. About social media, what would that one thing be? Holly: That's a great question. I think the biggest lesson learned I've had about social media is, you know, Education is what creates trust, and trust is what helps create authority. And then authority builds relationships and relationships build sales. So when you look at your social accounts or you look at what you are sharing, I always say like, what are you educating? Like what are you teaching? What are you, how are you helping somebody that you don't know get a win? So they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she shared that. And it was totally free. [00:22:00] But do it in a way where, you know, it's on social, but it's also on email. It's also on a podcast. It's like I always say, be so many places that people are like, how the heck is she doing that? And it's because we've got a solid plan behind the scenes of how we can be in multiple places at one time. Diane: Amazing. So can you just reiterate what your like private podcast is? Because I know people are probably gonna want to go and listen to this in more details so that they can build their own antisocial media plan. Holly: Yeah, I know it's hard. Like I said, it's hard to cover in just 20 minutes. So if you go to holly marie haynes.com/social, it's a five episode. Their mini episodes are like seven to 10 minutes, and I walk you through how to create your. Anti-social strategy, which is getting very clear on your message. What do you teach? What do you educate on? Where's your home base? Ideas on how to repurpose your content and really take that next step to, you know, what is your networking plan and how can you use social media in a way that is healthy and feels good and is fun and works for you, not against you. Diane: I'll be sure to link that in the show notes as well. So to finish up, I always ask my guests the same two questions. First up, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Holly: That is a great question. I would say right now it, I have very set work hours, so I actually have an app on my phone that will gray all my apps. Out. So like if I wanna check email or social after 7:00 PM I have to like unre the app, like click like seven questions or like, are you sure you really wanna do this? So I try really hard to have set business hours because I find that I'm more creative and can actually do more when I have a lot more white space. Diane: What is that app? Holly: So it's actually on your, so I have an iPhone. It's inside the iPhone, and you can set your settings and then you can set it at different levels. So I have it at the like extreme level where like at seven o'clock, if you look at [00:24:00] my phone, it, everything is grayed out. Like you could call, but that's really it. Diane: Where was that? In the days of really long nights out drinking, when you thought it was a good idea to call your ex-boyfriend? Where were the like 17? Are you a hundred percent Holly: sure you wanna do this? Yeah. And the cool part is, is at the end of every week it'll send you so I have it linked to my watch. And it'll send me a notification and it was like, you average two hours of x y, Z A day. Right Now, two hours is not just Instagram, it's, you know, you can set your own time limits. So like Instagram, I have like a 30 minute time limit and it'll say like, after 30 minutes a day, you have reached your time limit. Do you wanna continue? And you can like add a minute or add 15 minutes, but it's all in the settings of your iPhone. Diane: Amazing. It's like setting screen time for your kids, except you're doing it for yourself. Holly: Exactly. Diane: Awesome. And finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entrepreneur? Holly: Oh gosh. I actually feel like we were talking about ads for just a second. I was in a program where a lot of people were sort of had made it big running. Facebook ads and we're like, you know, it's the thing, it's the end all, be all thing. And so I listened and we did, and we just had horrible results. And spent a lot of money on ads that did not pan out the way that everyone said they would. And I mean, we could do a whole podcast on what should you do before we run an ad and we checked all the boxes, like we had all the things. But I just feel like the economy and the landscape is different than it was five years ago. And so, Like I always say, like what wor worked five years ago is most likely not going to work now. Like it's a different landscape. And so you have to really think about, you know, who's sharing that, what's their background, what's your background, and, and kind of trust your gut maybe a little more. Diane: Yeah, I think there's so much more like data considerations that weren't there five years ago. I think [00:26:00] also, obviously the entire economy's changed, but I think people really undersell people. On what it takes to get an an ad actually working. Like it sold to you as like you just have to write this copy and use this picture. And Shazam money arrives. You know, maybe you'll need to tweak it once. And I say sometimes ads just bomb and you have no idea. It's, it's the most frustrating thing. But yes, I think, and again, people who teach Facebook ads are good marketers, so it does always seem like a really exciting proposition. Oh, well this has been amazing. I feel a bit awkward asking where people can find you on the socials, but you did say you're still Holly: No, we totally use social. It's fun for me. Yeah. So we have a new account. We started a new account. It's the Holly Marie Haines. So you can come say hi and yeah, you can see all my repurposed content, which is talking about this interview and our anti-social planning. And yeah, you can see it come to life in real life. Diane: And there's that predominantly on Instagram. Holly: Yeah, so we're on Instagram. I don't have a Facebook group. I do use LinkedIn a little bit and Pinterest, but we try to focus most of our, our work on Instagram. Or you can find me on our podcast, which is Crush the Rush. Diane: Amazing. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and then also how we can learn from it. Holly: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.