How To Work With Your ADHD In Your Business With Courtney Chaal

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Courtney, Chaal and I are social media friends, and we bonded over our frustration with businesses rules, the tidy desk brigade, and trying to get our brains to do work when we really don't want it. So we're going to talk today, all about navigating the land of entrepreneurship. Through the lens of ADHD. And even if you don't have ADHD, some of your clients probably do. And I have found that some of my most useful business tips have come from the unique perspectives of neurodivergent entrepreneurs. So I guarantee there's something good in this episode for everyone. Hey Courtney, welcome to the show. [00:00:32] Courtney: I'm so glad to be here. I love talking about this topic. It's my obsession. So thank you so much for having me. [00:00:39] Diane: Before we start on the ADHD side of things, let's talk a little bit about your business journey [00:00:44] Courtney: yeah. So, so funny to look back because you know, through the lens of ADHD, because just for context, I didn't, I was not aware that ADHD, what related HD was nor was diagnosed until probably literally one year ago, as of the time of this recording, and when I was first presented with it as a, as a potential thing, to explain my, my list of 200 things I was struggling with I was like, well, no, no, no, that's not it like, I, I'm not a rambunctious little boy bouncing off the walls in school, like that's so, so going back to the story. And the Genesis of my business is really interesting through that lens because it all makes so much sense now. I, so I studied French in college and I didn't know at all what I was going to do with that. I didn't ever want to be a teacher, you know, in the traditional sense. And I just liked it. It was just fun. I just wanted to go to France. So after I graduated, I moved to Paris. Two years. And and in that time realized that I was wholly incapable of getting a regular nine to five job. And that was kind of terrifying because I didn't know what the alternative was like. I don't, I can't even tell you how many times I, how much time. On websites Googling like career tests on what career I should have, or like looking up different careers to try to find the one that I could fit into and just, it just nothing. I just couldn't find it. So in, during that time, I had also started blogging. While I was living in France and, and I always had, had a love of writing and things like that. And it sort of evolved as I stumbled into this, you know, the early years of the online business world, we're talking like 2010, it's like feels so long ago in, in online business timeframes. And I, I thought, you know, what if I could just, if I could just make like $30,000 a year. And live this Bohemian lifestyle and just travel around. I would be happy. I don't want to play by society's rules. And I ended up discovering that I really fell in love with the world of copyright. So to have a copywriting courses or working with clients and I named my business appellees so ADHD named my business, the rule breakers club. And I didn't know, I just knew that was the umbrella that I named it, that to remind myself of who I was so that I couldn't really I couldn't really escape it. Like I sort of did it to make sure that no matter what I would stay in that container of no. Following the rules of society. So again, just another just ADHD, neurodiverse defense mechanism that I didn't even realize I was doing. And that's how I got started. And so, you know, after that I had a, you know, fairly typical journey of, you know, all the entrepreneurs you hear. You know, I started with services, I niche down. You know, got clients that raised my prices. I launched a course. I, you know, it's been 10 years, so I've kind of run the gamut there. But I think that early days are actually where a lot of the, the, like it's so important because you're making all these decisions that really determine the path you're going down, you know? [00:04:02] Diane: Yeah. I think it's so interesting as well, how we don't recognize ADHD. other than the little boys that we knew who were quote unquote hyperactive and on Ritalin [00:04:12] Courtney: Yeah, totally. And they were like really annoying and Disruptive. [00:04:17] Diane: I don't relate to it at all so how I found out is I was at a conference and this doctor spoke and he was talking about Brain health. And he was actually the doctor who was involved in rehabilitating all the NFL players. And he was talking about like, being able to finally scan your brain like you would any other organ. And I have Alzheimer's in the family. I was obsessed with this idea that I was somehow going to get it any minute now. And I actually wouldn't have had my brain scanned purely to put that to rest and it's a really big process. Like it's a two day thing. There were so many tests. You have a pre-interview with a counselor, then they take all your results and everything, and they give them to the psychiatrist and he has the conversation with you. And you can actually see there's a spot on my brain that isn't. Essentially lit up [00:05:08] Courtney: Yeah. [00:05:08] Diane: minor. Like you wouldn't look at it. And he was like describing certain behaviors to me. And he's like, does this sound like you are you often the life and soul of the party? Have you ever danced on a ball? Have you like ever said, you're definitely not going to do something. And then the next minute you're somehow doing it. Have you ever bought something that you totally couldn't afford? And I was like looking at him and he goes, [00:05:31] Courtney: Let just everybody. [00:05:33] Diane: Yeah. I was like, is this I don't understand is it's not normal. I just thought I was outgoing and he sits me. He sits me. Well, these are actually, it's like this particular spot, but also what you're telling me, behavior wise, I think you have a very mild ADHD, it's almost the fun ADHD. Because it's enough to make you the license sole of a party, but if it gets much worse, like, if you start taking your clothes off on the bar, then we probably need to talk about some medication and I was like, okay, that's a good metric for me that I can, but I can watch [00:06:04] Courtney: I love how focused he was on the bar and dancing at the bar. And like what level to which [00:06:12] Diane: I know, like there's a part of me. That's like, I really wish I could see the questionnaire that I'd fill them because what did I say? [00:06:18] Courtney: what did I [00:06:18] Diane: The led him that led him to give me the measure. Like you can measure if your ADHD is getting worse by your behavior in a bar. I mean, not ideal, [00:06:28] Courtney: but I just love, I think it's so interesting. How, I mean, I love hearing how people sort of come to learn about ADHD or that they might have it because it's not, I think it is being talked about more, you know, we're having this conversation right now, especially in entrepreneur circles, but it's like, you almost have to stumble upon it somehow. [00:06:51] Diane: yeah, completely. It's not something that's openly talked about. And I don't know if it's also just women are better at hiding it and so we don't get diagnosed. [00:07:01] Courtney: And it shows, it shows up differently in women too. So a lot of women have the always forget because it's part of my ADHD is I can never remember the names of things, but you know, I do have the hyperactive ADHD, but my hyperactivity shows up. Talking a lot interrupting people. You'll notice even like people listening to this will notice that like my form of active listening is if someone's talking, I have to be like, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, because if I'm not doing that, my brain is off. I'm not listening. So people will interpret that as oh, she's interrupting. But what they don't understand is no that's. Listening is I have to verbally process what's going on. And so that's, that was a huge one for me. That was probably the symptom that I was the most ashamed of and the most frustrated with, because I could, no matter what I did, I did. Get myself to stop doing it. And when I read that on the, on like the, the little so I did like a little online questionnaire, you know, sort of like to see, like, are you even in this realm? And I was like, oh my God. Yes. Finally, you know, I mentioned the, these 200 things I've been struggling with. They're actually just one thing. I don't have to solve 200 problems. I have one problem and it's not even necessarily a problem. It's an explanation. [00:08:12] Diane: Yeah. And I think having people talk so openly about it in entrepreneurial circles and women in particular, and it's, it's often the meme that stops you and you go, wait, that's an ADHD. [00:08:23] Courtney: Yes. Yes. [00:08:25] Diane: I'll read something and I'll be like dying, laughing at something. And then I'm like, oh wait, wait, this we're saying that this is, this is not everyone, not everyone does this. And I think for me a year and I have laughed about this. It is like the spectrum of tidiness. [00:08:42] Courtney: Yes. [00:08:43] Diane: I like I am hyper organized at work. When I was in corporate, I was the person who had beautifully printed labels on all my files, because everything needed to look. Exactly. [00:08:53] Courtney: Like almost, almost like extra, Right. Like, cause for you, like, if you're going to be organized, you're going to be Oregon. To the max. You're not just going to be mildly organized. [00:09:04] Diane: No, exactly. But I felt like that took everything that I had. And then I came home and I'd be like, eh, and tidy nothing. [00:09:12] Courtney: And there's no accountability and like, you know what I mean? It's like, there's not that social context of, oh, I will be ostracized if I don't keep this tidy or, you know, it's like a survival mechanism. Which can be really useful to leverage that I've found is my whole motto right now is if I'm struggling with some thing, hire someone. Because I'm done, like trying to break myself and get mad at myself that I'm not doing it. I just create some outer accountability around it. And it doesn't always have to be hiring someone that can be really inaccessible to a lot of people. But it, it can, there's ways that you can leverage the people around you to use it. you know, there's one strategy for ADHD or Deere's called body doubling. So just having someone else physically present, I will often ask my husband to just sit at the counter while I washed it? Because if he's physically there, he doesn't have to do anything. And he just chats with me. I will wash all the dishes, but if he like goes into the bedroom or I, then I, for some reason I can't access that, that executive function to, to wash the dishes. [00:10:16] Diane: yeah, for me, that showed up interestingly in my business, which I had never really connected. You know, honestly, like I got the like diagnosis and I was like, that's great. I'll be careful not to dance naked on board. Mo moving along with life. I'll look out for that one, but otherwise, apparently I'm fine. So we'll just continue on like, there's nothing else for me to worry about, but for me, where it showed up in my business and only like looking back at it now and can I see it is I could not get myself to blog full years. we have a mutual friend, Hailey Dale. Literally said to me that I had to give her the password to my content bank. And if I didn't post the blog in the next week, she was going to release all of my half written content [00:10:57] Courtney: I love that. Oh, she's [00:10:59] Diane: just physically, like, I don't know what it was, but I've had a podcast that's coming up on a hundred episodes. It's two a week, like clockwork. I've never missed a deadline on it because I feel like apple is. [00:11:13] Courtney: Hmm. [00:11:14] Diane: meet my deadline or, you know, the world will end. And while I knew I needed the external accountability, it never occurred to me. Like, why am I needed? Like, why can I have a completely successful corporate career? But I can't get myself throughout a blog. [00:11:27] Courtney: Yeah. exactly. And then we, and then we berate ourselves for it. And, you know, Gretchen Rubin who wrote the happiness project has this concept of the four tendencies, like how you're motivated and you know, it's externally, internally, both or neither. Right. And mine was. More, neither. I'm more it's called the rebel is like, nothing works for you. I do tend to like, if anything works, it tends to be the external accountability, but I have to decide, I want it, like, if somebody tells me what to do, you can guarantee I'll do the opposite just to prove that I can. And I wish I, I wish I was more mature than that, but that's just how my brain works. Right. So I think, I feel like, you know, when you're more externally motivated, meaning having some, having external accountability. People like I've noticed people who are like that they're called obligers. Right? Cause you're like obliging to, you know, outer expectations. People almost sort of ashamed of that. Like, oh, I'm like a loser because I can't motivate myself. I need other people. And I think that's really dangerous that it's all neutral. Right. It's like, it's just a matter of fact. I need external accountability because I need the stimulation of that and the container of it to access my best work. And I think I've spent so much time wasting, trying to, trying to make that not be true, trying to go, no, I can motivate myself. And the thing is I can motivate myself if I get really interested in something. And then I hyper focus on it for a while, but if it's something I need to do regularly, My laundry, my dishes exercise get my podcast out every week. I have my podcast manager, who's waiting on our podcasts and so I get it done, you know, and, and I'm done, I'm done being mad at myself that I need that. [00:13:14] Diane: Yeah, we've been taught that like entrepreneurship looks like a certain thing, which tends to be very traditionally what. Able to do whatever it takes. Like when people talk to me about working like, oh, I worked 15 hours a day when I started my business, I was like, how, like, [00:13:31] Courtney: Y [00:13:33] Diane: I mean, before I even get to why I'm like genuinely curious and like, like consistently 15 hour days, I mean, we will last a day or two to focus, but. Like how, like my brain would just be like, okay, we're done not night. You can sit and stare at the computer, but you, I'm not gonna I'm I'm done I'm out. So how do you work with your ADHD? Like where does it show up that makes you more powerful and where do you need to like find a way to work with it? [00:14:02] Courtney: Ooh, that's a really good question. I, so what's been on my mind in the last few days is realizing how much the pandemic aggravated my ADHD symptoms. I mean, that's why I got diagnosed in July, August of 2020 is it was everything that was working for me. Oh, very long time. You know, I, I did well in college. I, you know, I have a successful business, all the things that were working well for me, dependent mix stripped away everything that made me have a hell of a good mental. And be productive. It was incredibly difficult for me. And I'm really just in this moment coming to terms with just how difficult it was. I don't think there was a way for me to function properly in the pandemic, given how my brain works best. It was incredibly damaging to me which is really. really. happy to be acknowledging that now, because, and the reason I'm able to see it is because now that things are starting to open up and I'm, you know, able, you know, I'm traveling, I'm from the U S but I live in Canada and I'm traveling to visit my parents in the U S in a couple of weeks. Now that I have things like planned I'm I, you know, I bought a condo. I'm moving to that. There's like things on the horizon, in the future. Now my brain is going again now. Yeah. this is me like this is, I remember this. I'm not the most organized person in the world. I'm not the, I'm not the best with having a, to do list every day, but it works for me. Right. Whereas, because my brain is on. So it's able to. Do it in it's messy way. I love the word messy. I'm totally about Embry, about embracing messiness. I think messiness is again, it's neutral. Procrastination is neutral. It's just a thing that you do. How can we leverage it? My messiness is a side effect of my creativity and the way that I think. And so if I were to be really tidy, it actually. It actually robs me of my greatest strength, which is my creative thinking. So I just didn't like the desk in front of me right now is literally just, I mean, there's so much shit. Cause you said I could swear so much shit strewn about like, I can't even, there's like an instant pot that's broken on the corner. There's like six glasses. I've got floor samples, measuring tapes and crystals journals of books and toilet paper roll. Just randomly sitting here. There's some cleaner, I've got a pot of coffee, like it's, but I don't care anymore. Like I've given up. Knowledge would not care. Like I love it. I know like, this is, this is my I'm, I'm the mad professor, right? I'm the professor that you walk in their office and there's just like books all over the place and everything's coffee stained. Like I am totally owning that. So I digress. What's working for me is embracing that I need those things to kind of look forward to because it creates containers on my focus. Whereas in the pandemic, it was just too open-ended of nothing. And there was nothing to stimulate my brain and the, the, the monotony of it was it. You could not have created a more dysfunctional container for me personally, to, to exist in then then the pandemic restrictions. So, w what works for me and what doesn't, and like what, you know, w whereas my ADHD worse and better. I think what I'm realizing now is. Now that we're getting sort of, you know, quote unquote back to normal and I'm going to be experiencing ADHD in a normal world for the first time, consciously is embracing, embracing the messiness and having having some pillars of structure to look forward to. So my team is local. We never met locally until yesterday. We've been working together for a year and a half. We're like, okay, we need to do this once or twice a month. So having that to look forward to kind of gives me then the container for the next two to four weeks of what I need to focus on or having a trip upcoming or an event. It, those are the kinds of things that create rhythm in my life that allow me the container to focus. And then I'm able, once my brain is on, I'm able to do stuff I get, I'm not, I'm not a to-do list or like, I can't, I just don't even understand that. Like sometimes I'll I'll brain dump onto a list if like, I feel overwhelmed, but more often than not, I'm just kind of do stuff half, just go. But Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that totally, yeah. Answers your question, but that's what that sparked for me was just that's the place that I'm in right now. [00:18:33] Diane: It's funny that you say that to-do list because I am a big to-do list person. I am a fan. I do think it comes back from corporate, but I'm the type of person who might have do list is on about 20 post-its. Because every time I need to write a new thing down and then some of it's on my phone and then some of it's on my computer and I've stopped sinking those notes. So they don't connect to each other either. And then I've got a new obsession with index cards. So, you know, [00:18:58] Courtney: with this. [00:18:59] Diane: Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll find something like three months later and be like, oh, that was a really good idea. Oh, well, [00:19:05] Courtney: Yeah, well, this is why I got an iPad because of course like now I've just still got notes strewn about, I got an iPad about a year ago, because I was like, I'm always like writing things on scrap papers and then I lose them, recycle them, you know? And so I put it on the iPad. So that's helped some things like I do. But, you know, it is what it is. I mean, some of it's just like, you know, we're, we're, we're known for creating like, oh, I've got a new system. Okay. That'll last like four days. We'll see what happens, but it's, it's okay. Like embrace, embrace the new system while you're in love with it. And then don't be mad at yourself if it doesn't work. [00:19:38] Diane: this is what I preach in like business stuff to people anyway, is finding what works for you. And then putting that in place. So when you said about the desk, I was chuckling because this morning I cleared my whole desk because I knew I was going to have podcasts batch day. I've got six, lots of interviews today and I needed to be focused. And I knew if I left anything on my desk, that when I had like a 15 minute break between calls, I'd be like doodling. I'd be like coming up with, as it is, I've got three post-its that have three new ideas on them. But only because I could reach the post-it pad. So. I know, normally my desk is a towering mess of like, about to stumble over at any second, but I knew that I needed to start clear today, or I wouldn't be able to [00:20:16] Courtney: Yep. Whereas I have literally nothing else today. I'm getting my hair cut. So, so I was like, eh, whatever. It's fine. [00:20:25] Diane: Yeah, exactly. I don't on a normal day. I wouldn't even have thought about it, but you know, today I knew it was going to be like a brain intensive day. So I had to take away all its other toys. So something that I'm finding recently, that's working better for me than five days on two days off is kind of going more with a two day, one day kind of rhythm. I find that I can have two really intense days and then I needed a down day. And, but I can't have more than a down day because once my brain switches off, the longer I leave it switched off the harder it is [00:20:54] Courtney: it is. yeah. It's such a delicate balance. I think that's the thing is we, we get hard on ourselves for like the time our butts spend in the chair at the computer. Right? But the thing is. And I, I would venture to say all people probably, but especially if you have an ADHD brain is once you get into hyper-focus that, that hyper-focus energy is like 10 X, a normal person's focus, you know? So it's like, Yeah. I might work less. But when I, and when I'm getting something done, I can get it done like way faster than anyone else. It's just that I'm not consistent. [00:21:31] Diane: I think it's funny. Cause like every now and then I'll have an idea. And I'll tell someone about the idea. And then the next day, like, the whole funnel is there and people are like, [00:21:38] Courtney: at the project is done, [00:21:39] Diane: it's done, like we're finished. And people are like, I don't understand. You told me this yesterday. I'm like, yeah, but here it is. It's done. [00:21:45] Courtney: but then I won't get anything done for a month after that. [00:21:48] Diane: Yes, the next day, I'm like catatonic [00:21:53] Courtney: Yes. [00:21:55] Diane: I think it's becoming okay. More open and more accessible to talk about this and to think about it as like, how can we harness that focus so that that's our superpower. If somebody is listening to us talk and is laughing because that's usually how it starts. I find like it realizing that, okay, hang on the whole world, doesn't do this. This is just our special powers. What would you tell them would be the first thing? [00:22:19] Courtney: You had almost a very opposite diagnostic process than what I typically hear. Right. [00:22:28] Diane: Completely. And it came because I had literally just left corporate where I had a ton of third-party accountability. So it was never really an issue. Then it kind of came and it kind of came as like a threat. And it's only recently when, like you've been talking about it and other people have been talking about it that I've been like, oh yeah, I do that. oh, oh, okay. I [00:22:50] Courtney: oh, that's how that bar dancing thing is showing up in my business. [00:22:53] Diane: Right, I see it. I see it. It's not just naked bar dancing. Okay. It's also this thing. So if somebody is listening to us, What would you say to them? Like, what would your, and I don't mean medical advice or anything like that? Just like, how are you feeling when you yeah. How were you feeling when you were in the throws of like, this is [00:23:14] Courtney: plea, I will say like, Yeah. like please don't DMS and ask us if you should be on medication because [00:23:19] Diane: Yeah. [00:23:20] Courtney: that to me. I'm like, [00:23:20] Diane: Or, even if you have ADHD, we [00:23:23] Courtney: Yeah. I'm not like I'm here to like, just share my experience. And I love hearing people go, oh my God, this, you know, listening to you and Diane opened my eyes and like, I that's me and I, that gets me excited because, because I'm like, yes, everybody has ADHD. It's I know. I, I think it's just, I get so excited for people to have that moment of, oh, that's why I'm like this and it's okay. It's not, you know, a lot of ADHD years undiagnosed, especially. Women because girls are severely underdiagnosed because our ADHD often shows up as like daydreaming and being lost in our own thoughts. And it's very different from the hyperactive type which I have, I actually have combined types. So I do both. I do both of the things, but I would say everyone's journey is going to look a little different. So I don't want to prescribe like, do this, do that, do that because also ADHD often comes up. Opposite oppositional defiant disorder, which I definitely have, which is the second someone tells you to do something. You're like, ah, I'm not going to do that. That's not gonna work for me. So what, I always tell people, because I'm like, what book should I read? What should I do? I'm like, I feel like, you know. there's a lot, there's so many articles. There's like attitude magazine online. They have so many articles. There's so many books I would say. You know, if you're curious about it, start Googling and see what interests you, because the whole thing about ADHD is that our brains are wired for inter interest over importance. So If I tell you read this book, because it's important, you're not going to do it If you stumble upon it, cause you go, Ooh, I'm super interested. I'm getting lost on the rabbit hole of ADHD. And I want to buy this book on Kindle. Then you're more like you're going to read the parts of the book that are interesting to you and embrace that. So I really want to step away from, for, for us ADHDers of looking to someone else to tell us what we need to do, because I think one of the biggest things we need to do is, is figure out who we are and what we do naturally. Which that's what I'm telling you to do. That's what I'm telling you to do is embrace who you are. And so for me, I was really frustrated and I was dropping a lot of balls and I was like, this can't be normal. Like this is it's getting worse. Not better. I felt like I was, I had done so much coaching. I've been in business for 10 years. Why am I getting. Less organized and less on top, like what is happening? And I, I, and I have, I'm a very confident human being. It's not, oh, I suck. Oh, I don't believe in myself. I'm like, I know I'm intelligent. In fact, ADHD often I actually, somebody came into my DMS and said, it's like, I'm a genius who can't do the basics. And I've never felt more seen than when, when she said that I know I'm highly intelligent and highly capable. So why do I struggle so much for taking the laundry out of the washer and putting it in the dryer? Like literally in this moment I have wash in the washer that needs to go in the dryer and I will absolutely forget to move that probably have to wash it three more times before I ultimately move into the dryer. So when I was complaining on the phone to my mom and I keep digressing because I have my add is like, and then it has this happened and then this happened, and then this happened. But I was, I was like, there's something going on here? Like this isn't just, you're fine. Like muscle dub. I was like, no, there's something going on here. It's not okay. And my mom had a friend who was a social worker who worked with people with ADHD who had thought my brother might have it. And it just occurred to my mom to say, Hey, Have you looked into ADHD and I thought, well, no, that's, that's not what it is. But then I went upstairs to my apartment and I got on my computer and I Googled it and I took that assessment. I told you, and I started bawling my eyes out because like I said, I was like, I have, I have 99 problems. And it's really just. All under the same umbrella, every single thing that I've been struggling with that I don't even know that I knew how to verbalize, like it was subconscious. I knew it. And when somebody, when I saw it in the questionnaire I went, yes, that's the thing. The interrupting people, the, you know, being really chatty the you know, one time, a couple of years ago, I booked two plane tickets for the same time. You know, just stuff like that. Like constantly double-booking myself constantly just making stupid errors. When I thought I had been absolutely diligent about things that I cried because I was like, oh my God, there's a reason. It's not just like, I'm not trying hard enough or I'm being lazy, which is the story that had really been ingrained into me that I had ingrained in myself because it was the only possible explanation that I had at the time. So. For me taking that questionnaire was really validating then Googling and reading articles. And I bought probably 20 books and read about 40% of 50% of them. And, you know, That. I mean, that's, that's the kind of thing is like, let your hyper-focus on the curiosity about ADHD, take you down the rabbit hole of what's interesting to you and there's YouTube videos. I have my rebel productivity, Facebook group, which is really just a, a group of people who are mostly entrepreneurs. And it's not, it's not like a, I'm an expert kind of thing. It's more just a community where we kind of share. Like funny things that happened to us and like, does anyone else have this happen? Or we ask questions and stuff. It's really just to be around people who have, have similarly functioning brains and realize, oh, it's okay. Like these are my people I'm not alone. And there's some really successful entrepreneurs in there which is really cool because this doesn't, this is not a limit on yourself by any means. So I know I'm getting way off of the original question, but I just, I get so excited about. This because it's been such a freeing experience for me over the last year. Everyone's expression is different and then it's also a spectrum, right? So it's a V it's not a one dimensional situation. It's a complex process that involves a lot of parts of the brain. And so, yeah, kind of exploring what, where you're at and what's interesting to you, I think is really cool. [00:29:17] Diane: Yeah. I mean, I have the, like Dawn's naked on the ball ADHD, so, you know, there's something in it for everyone. [00:29:23] Courtney: Yeah. feel like that might be me too. Yeah. [00:29:29] Diane: I look forward to the text message. This is, this has been super fun and I like, I feel like you, and I could probably spend six hours and still not ever get to the end of a true story without diverging from it. Where can people find you and all of your goodness on the inset? So we've had the Facebook group. Is there anything else? [00:29:49] Courtney: My Instagram is at Courtney Chaal. I talk quite a bit about this stuff. On there. Cause it's kind of where I just process my thoughts is on Instagram. And then I also, like I mentioned, so I have a podcast called yay for business and I have a few episodes. A couple I did last year about, you know, getting diagnosed with ADHD. I did one on tips for entrepreneurs, with ADHD. And then I did an interview with Denise Duffield-Thomas on ADHD. A few weeks ago. So yeah, I, I mean, I'm not an expert I'm, I'm on this journey. Maybe, maybe a few steps, you know, quote unquote ahead. But I'm really just here as a, as a sharing my experience and hopes that people will see themselves and feel validated, seen, and heard through that. [00:30:37] Diane: Yeah. Oh, this has been so fun. I could just keep it okay. You can and get going, but [00:30:42] Courtney: Well, the irony is ADHD years. We tend to. We could talk for six hours, but we also are the ones that could never listen to that, [00:30:51] Diane: yeah, it's like, I want to talk for six hours. I Do not want to edit six hours. So [00:30:57] Courtney: of ADHD. Yeah. [00:31:00] Diane: So to finish up, I always ask my guests a couple of questions. The first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? [00:31:09] Courtney: Ooh, Ooh. I love boundaries so much. Okay. Ah, this is so hard. Hmm, number one, lifestyle boundary for my business. I have so many I don't do like I don't do this is very vague, but it really, all my boundaries fall into this way. I don't do anything. I don't want to. So, I don't respond to messages. I don't want to respond to, I don't schedule things. I don't want to schedule. I don't, I, I like, I barely do email. Actually. I did an Instagram post where I did like, these are some controversial, controversial, controversial boundaries that I have. And I think they all kind of fall into that categories. I'm very good at saying no. [00:31:53] Diane: do you, do you say no and not do it completely? Or is it a no, someone else should do it like email as your team [00:32:00] Courtney: It depends. Yeah. It depends like sometimes like it, right. Some things it's just a no, like let it go. And some things are I let my team take it. Yeah. [00:32:10] Diane: Right. That makes sense. Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entrepreneur? [00:32:20] Courtney: Oh, my God, this there's like these are such juicy questions. The worst piece of cookie cutter advice I've received as an entrepreneur, I have to, along the lines of, of this conversation around ADHD, it has to be that Procrastination is bad and sets you up for mediocrity. That one is so pervasive. P. It's like factual to them. That procrastination is a negative. And I am not trying to say procrastination is amazing. What I'm trying to say is it's neutral. It's a quality, it's a tendency that many of us have, and it can be leveraged as a strength, right? If you know, Hey, I tend to get things done last minute with a hard deadline that someone is waiting for me. Why don't you create deadlines where someone's waiting for something so that you can get things done, right. Rather than trying to change who you are, why don't we set up the environment and so that you can function within that. So, yeah. Yeah. I feel like that one is particularly annoying to me. For me procrastination usually, is there something I'm not interested in the thing because my brain is wired for interest over important. So, and if I'm not interested in it, I'm probably not going to do my best work. So what I was, I see it as a sort of red flag. [00:33:37] Diane: Well, this has been amazing. So let's just remind everyone. Instagram is your favorite connection spot. Best place to chit chat with you, tell you all [00:33:48] Courtney: Yes. And I love DMS. I'm a, I'm a big chatter in the DM. So if, if you found this episode interesting and anything, cause I, I, that's what I tend to get a lot of from this topic is, oh my God. When you talked about this, I was like, that's me. I, I love that so much. [00:34:05] Diane: Yeah. [00:34:06] Courtney: lights me up. So Yeah. don't be shy. [00:34:08] Diane: That and any like ADHD meme accounts, he shared them with both of us share the actual means. Like we're there for it. A hundred percent distract. [00:34:17] Courtney: in the stories where you're sharing the meme. [00:34:19] Diane: Yeah, yeah, totally. It's fine. Oh, this has been so fun. Thank you so much. [00:34:24] Courtney: Well, thank you again for having me. And I really hope that I hope that your listener is At least like, even if they don't have ADHD or like, oh, I didn't realize this was a thing for people. It can make us all a little bit more understanding and compassionate with each other.