How To Use PR Principles Everywhere In Your Business with Renée Warren

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Diane: Hey, Hey, today, guest Renee Warren is an award-winning entrepreneur speaker, author podcast to and founder of we wild woman, and she helps entrepreneurs start and scale their businesses. And she does all that with two young children. So I figured she'd be the perfect person to help us figure out what the needle movers are in our business, that we can do what we need to do and then get on with our lives. Hey Renee, welcome to the show. Renee: thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here and I just finished my coffee. So this is perfect Diane: perfect timing. We always like to get it as the caffeine hits. So let's start with a bit about your business journey because you've been an entrepreneur for a couple of decades, so I'm sure that's a pretty fascinating tale. Renee: Yeah. I started when I was 17 years old. So my mom told me to go get a job and which I tried, I interviewed for a handful of places. And I was, I was told that entrepreneurs don't work a lot and they make a lot of money. And so I thought, I'd go start my own restaurant that I did with my sister. And it was a seasonal place. We worked there the summer. So like spring, summer until school started. And we did that for four years and we did well, like we, we paid ourselves enough that we didn't have any debts in college. We worked hard, like 60, 70 hours a week. Cause we just, we didn't know. Right. These like preconceived notions of entrepreneurship was like, oh, I can go out and buy a fancy car. Like, why isn't everybody doing this? And then I went to college, did the whole like traveling thing. And then I started in communications. So what happened was Twitter was like kind of like the big social network that really connected, like the world. I guess there was Facebook if there was my space and there was other platforms out there, but I really honed in on Twitter and ended up creating these communities. One was called gen Y T O. So generation Y. I mean, we got a big group of people together, startups, investors, and I think every month we'd have like a big event. The last event we had almost 500 people show up to. And this is when, like there were a big twistables and Twitter festivals and like all these big things. And then. You know, other social media platforms started to really evolve and people were starting to leverage them for business like Pinterest, Facebook Instagram. And so I really honed in on how we could leverage those platforms for business. I started to connect with other incredible people before I knew it. I was running ads, writing content for startups to help them with their content marketing strategies and honing in on the connection between PR social and content market. That eventually evolved to me, starting a PR agency that was world recognized that won awards for we had clients from all over the world. So from South Africa to San Diego so that business was kind of like the start of my journey into the mess becomes your message. Right? So that was my eventual message because I started that agency when I was eight months pregnant with my first son. And in that same year, we welcomed her second son because I have two boys are 11 months apart. Diane: wow. Renee: so started a business husband's other startup was being acquired at that time. It's a busy time for him. We had two babies and we're like, how are we going to do this? How are we going to survive this? Well, it turns out that if you actually apply business like philosophies to your family, life Gantt chart, so weekly stand up meetings, quarterly retreats, spreadsheets, you name it project management tools that you could actually organize your family life to run more efficiently. And that's how we survived those crazy dark days. Diane: my goodness. I've never thought about like gunshots for families. I think you, I guess you are both in business and your husband's in tech as well, so you're both. Predisposed to that kind of organizational thinking. Renee: Yeah. And it was like a hard pitch because I grew up in a good, more traditional household, but we eventually made it work because I saw how, the reason why there's so much resistance for people to do things like this for their family life and their personal life is because it takes extra time initially to create the processes, to actually create the habits and routines around how to create more efficiencies in your life. And people just don't do it. Or they'll start it and it's great and they'll do it for a month or so. And then it's something happens and they just don't continue doing it. We're not perfect with our meetings. We're not perfect with the process, but it's definitely helped us, like even just like having standard operating procedures for our fans. People are like what? You have an operations manual. I was like, yeah, I have the name of our doctors or chiropractors or massage therapist. The school is the teachers, the bus numbers, the dates for school. Like everything you can push, possibly need to know is in that document. Diane: I've spent probably about a year house-sitting when I moved back to the UK and these were the people whose house. I loved to hustle it because everything ran like a machine. And if you ever needed to know anything, they were like, here's the list of everything. Here are all the documents. Here are all the links. Here's your contact details. So do you still have that agency? Is that still running in the background of Renee: no, I got so burnt out because we didn't implement, like, it was, it was just too late, you know, it was just like too late. I had already started burning out. I mean, having babies alone is enough and then starting a business like, whoa, what am I doing it anyway? I burnt out, but there was a lot of also drama that happened within the company co-founder leaving. And then like a story now that I'm totally open talking about is being sued for wrongful dismissal, from somebody who I just was protecting the whole time. I'm rolling my eyes for people that are listening to this. So I don't, but I do a handful of clients a year super, perfectly aligned. I'll do, you know, two or three month PR campaign for them, but yeah, really what I've taken away from all of that is now being able to coach other female entrepreneurs in growing their business, as well as in starting PR for them? And so like I do PR coaching. Like I don't want to do The PR I don't want to do the pitching, but I can definitely teach an entrepreneur how to do it successfully themselves without having to pay for the big overhead of an agency. So no, I don't have the agency anymore. I don't think I'll ever have an agency anymore. For those that are in that service business, it's a lot. And I have so much respect for the people that are running those types of companies. Cause it's, it's a lot. Diane: I like the idea of somebody doing all of that pitching for me, especially if it was like writing, pitching, because then I don't have to feel bad when everybody says no, but being on the other side of a lot of that pitching from a podcast perspective, you can smell an agency pitch. for me, the really good ones are when the agency, I actually think the agency's about to pitch them. Because they've given me such a detailed pitch about why they've listened and all of these things. And then suddenly it's like, I might have someone for you. Can I make an introduction? But on the whole, a lot of that is really boilerplate copy paste. I've not even paid any attention to your show. Like I get pitched men all the time and I only have female guests. Renee: too. I'm like I mean, it's like, is, does he identify as a man? Like, I don't know, like I'm willing to have this conversation, but I, I keep all of those pitches and S like the majority are good. There's, there's a whole agencies that just pitch their clients to podcasts. There's actually one that I got this morning that is so far the best one that I've ever seen. And it was, you can tell that they put in effort to actually understanding the demographic they've listened to episodes. Cause they referred to like intricacies of an episode. Not only that they left a review and took a screenshot of their review for the podcast. Right. Okay. Who's your guests does gal that lives into the rock. Perfect. They can definitely be on my show because they've shown me intent. Like they care and it just takes effort. Like that's one thing I teach and PR is like, you, you can definitely send a mass email to a hundred people and you might get a reply, but it's not going to ever work for you in the longterm and just one-on-one outreach. And the fact that they put in, you know, maybe an extra. 10 more minutes into this pitch is going to not only have a higher open rate, but I definitely gonna follow up with them. If the guest isn't a good fit, I'll be like, who else? He got, like make suggestions. Diane: exactly. Like make a relationship with me as the podcast. Before you talk to me about guests, for sure. We had the PR agency , eight months pregnant and then had baby one. And then within a year head baby to while running the PR agency. Renee: yeah. No big deal. Diane: No big deal. And so that unsurprisingly led to some burnout. So what do you think you do differently now in your business? Would you say your boys are still, they're still young, right? Renee: Well there, actually, during this recording, is there in that timeframe of a year that they're both the same age. They're both eight years old right? now. Diane: oh my gosh. How fun? I didn't even think of that. Renee: Yeah. So yes, they're, they're younger. But way more independent now Yeah. So the thing about burnout is like, put it this way. During that time I was not eating well. I was eating my emotions. I was not working out. I was not drinking enough water and I have this big, like two liter thing that comes with me everywhere. Now. The moment I started to make tiny little adjustments in my life was what I saw, like a 1% improvement every day. Like I signed up for CrossFit and I was like, I hated CrossFit for three months. Warming up next is one lady named Wendy. And she's like, how are you liking CrossFit? It was like my second class, like without the onboarding, like instructor. And I was like, oh my gosh, I hate this so much. I don't know what I'm doing. I might just cancel it. She goes, no, no, no. Don't the first couple months are the worst. And then it gets. I was like, okay. And I was like, fine. I'll commit myself to at least two months. And then I started to see my strength, improve my confidence improve. So it got to this point when cross it became my drug and 99% of the time, if I'm tired or sluggish or have a headache or something hurts. And I go and work out, I feel better. And so that was one thing I was like, okay, this is going to help me sleep better, be more energized. And we do that. Then we went down this nutrition path, my husband and I it's like, we eliminated crap. We started eating super healthy. He's actually doing his first full iron man in three days. And if you know anything about Ironman training during your peak training days, it's four hours a day. Every single day, like the recovery, the recovery days is my workout. Oh, I'm swimming for an hour long, run an hour long bike ride. I'm like, it's a workout to me. And that's your recovery. So all of these things, like we had to be healthier and the moment that you decide to make those life changes and you decide to be healthier, everything else starts falling in. And so when I notice those, those little moments of burnout creeping out, like us moving across the country, German and a pandemic, and like all these things, I was like, okay, I need alone time. Okay. I need to work out a coy. I needed to be more mindful of, you know, that I have to read before bed instead of watching Instagram reels. And now I can avoid it that. I can actually fully show up and be the best version of myself for the people that I need to serve. Yeah. I know before I think we pressed record, there was there's one thing that I was just so excited to share was that today's probably one of the first real nice days of the summer that we've had. And of course the luck would have it. It's I'm back to back to back meetings today, tomorrow it's raining and the next day it's raining and I don't have meetings. And so I was looking at my schedule this morning and I was like, Oh, I know, I know this is my responsibility to show up for these people. Cause they've probably moved things around in their calendar to be available for. But I also need to pay attention to my cup that needs to get filled up. And so maybe I'll push things to another day and it just so happened. That phone rings right. at that moment. My husband's like I'm on the boat. I moved things this afternoon. Are you free? Come join me. And I was like, that was the signal I needed the permission to just go with it. And so this afternoon I have one more coaching call after this and I'm going to go And be like, you know what, some of those calls I can take from the boat so I can still work. But I know that I need that and I'm not gonna deny myself that. That's why I became an entrepreneur, was for the freedom. Diane: And I think once you've had burnout, your boundaries become so crystal Renee: Well, I would hope so. Diane: In my corporate career, I like burnt out, walked out of my corporate career, went traveling for 18 months, two years because I was just like, I have literally no concept of how I can continue in this way. And it's almost like my entire body shuts down. When I start to push it in that direction now, it's just such a physical response, which I'm seeing from you as well how do you teach that boundary too? One of the people that you're coaching, who maybe hasn't gone as far into that burnout, because I think if someone's burned out, it's really easy to say, remember how bad that was. Let's not do that again, but for someone who hasn't maybe gone that far, how do you teach that boundary? Renee: So there's part of it. That's like in my social media, on my podcasts is I do it. I share it, which gives some other women permission to do the same. Oh, well, if she can do that and be a successful entrepreneur, then I can do that too. The way to do it is to start with baby steps. So like when I started my coaching company almost two years ago, I did not. Schedule calls Mondays and Fridays, I would not have reoccurring COVID coaching calls or reoccurring anything on those days because Mondays are my creative days and Fridays are the days that I use to like wrap up projects that I couldn't complete during the week. So that I know Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, it's pretty stacked with calls and sales calls and whatnot. And that gives me grace. It's not like I'm having a four day weekend, but Hey, if I chose to. But now I know Monday I ease into the week and I'm super productive. Like I get eight hours of work done in half that time because I don't have any obligations Diane: right. Renee: it's perfect. And so it's always like the baby steps. I know we talked about like lifestyle entrepreneurship and I still don't know if I agree. That term, but let's just say that's the label for what a lot of women choose. Like I wanted to let be a lifestyle entrepreneur. Basically what you're saying is I want to create a business that favors my ideal life. I call it lifestyle design. You don't have to work 40 or 50 hours a week and you don't not have to make a million dollars. Yes. If you want to, you go and do it. There is no reason why you need to be making a crap ton of money as an entrepreneur. If you have it. It pays the bills. It makes you happy. You're giving back to society. You're giving back to your community. That is more than good enough. And so like this hustle culture thing, that's got to go, that's like, I canceled that Diane: right. Renee: done. So the, the avoiding burnout, or if you're seeing that it's happening is start putting up those walls. You're just going to say no, you're going to see, I can't do that. I won't do that. Let's reschedule. It's the babysitter. Diane: How do you decide what the things are? You can't move that you can't cancel that you can't say no to? Renee: Oh gosh. Okay. So perfect example would be this afternoon. When I was looking at my calendar, I was like, are any of these things urgent calls? And my urgent, I mean, are these reoccurring schedule coaching calls of which people have already paid me thousands of dollars for that's a priority? No. Does it have to do with my health or my, my family or anything that needs to happen. Like if it's like, you know, being interviewed by the private school principal or something like that. Cool. No, it's not. The way I look at it as in my calendar or these things are mega priority for these other people as well. Like I have a podcast recording that I can move. I know I can move. I have. A sales call for somebody not sorry, an interview for somebody that I'm looking to hire. I can take that from my afternoon off. Right? So like you look at, and I, and there's going to be a moment where it's like my mental health or physical health versus this priority. I also don't coach women. That would be so livid if I had to reschedule a call because they interview me just as much as I interviewed them. I'm like, are we good? Can we actually go have tacos up the street at the taco stand and just talk about life. That's a filter for me. Diane: Yeah. Renee: I work, I get to attract the people that would also be okay with rescheduling. Okay. Renee, I can't do this this week. that's fine. That's cool. And I've had it happen to me many times before. But even outside of looking at stuff in the calendar, it's like travel. We have a rule with our kids where they only get to sign up for one athletic activity a season, because I know I have some friends that have their kids in baseball, soccer, football, but I'm like, where's your time? That doesn't fill my love tank. And so they get one activity they choose. And so in the fall it's going to be soccer. Right. And I, and I take drum lessons. That's, that's my thing. That's my escape from reality is I go and I bang on a drum for an hour every week. Diane: that's probably a pretty good release. Renee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know when I first show up and before I leave, he goes, the Cabernet, just let it all out. And I just go bang, bang on the drums as hard as I can, as loud as I can until It's all out. And he's like are you good to go? I'm like, yep. Let's start the lesson. Diane: The week out of my system. Okay. So I know I want to go back to what you said about not liking the term lifestyle business. And I agree with you. I also really dislike the term for. A different reason, mostly because for a lot of people, they think, you mean fashion, home goods, interior design. And I feel like you land up explaining that you're not that, but you're also not the 20 year old nomad sitting on a beach pretending to work. When we all know that all you would get to be sat in your computer. Renee: right. Or they have like an only, or offend only account. And they're making millions by showing people. Boobies are their fates. Yeah, No, I didn't know what, and who cares if you're in fashion and decor and that's like, and you're good at it, right? But it's like, if, if lifestyle, business is what you want to call it, then that's, what is the reason why I hate it is because that's exactly what you're saying is like, it was sand on. To like stand on your toes, laying on the beach, having your laptop next to it. The reality is, is like, sure. There's younger people that can make a lot of money doing that. Most people just don't have that flexibility. They have a mortgage, they have children, they have to attend a school. They don't, it's just, it's not, it's not like for everybody, Diane: Let's stay in this vein of lifestyle, business, and not wanting to create a second job as our own PR person, if you had one strategy that you would teach to somebody. In a lifestyle business, what would that be? Renee: Ooh. Okay. I love this. So. It's interesting because I think of PR as the, the mothership of marketing, like they say, marketing is like the umbrella and their sales and PR I think PR is the actual umbrella because what it stands for is public relations. Anything you do in business is about building relationships, everything. And so the easiest way to create those, those connections is find the social media channel that works best for your industry. For me, it's. And I have certain hashtags that I follow and I just go and I follow the people like my ideal customer. And this is PR my ideal customer. That's using the hashtag. And I just do a quick search to see what they're all about, what they're selling, where they're living like, and then I'll message them. I might follow them. I might comment on stuff and like them, and I message them. And I send them a message. That's very personal. It's not cut and paste after I follow up with a quick voice note because the voice. People know is not copy and paste it. I mean, someone had intent to go in. So I do that and I connect with probably a handful of women a week. And if I have, because I do some PR stuff for other, some, some clients now too, I'll do the same method. I'll apply the same approach to pitching. Because the reality is on the other end of the phone or the other end of an email is a person person that want, they, they need to feel significant. They need to feel seen and heard regardless of who they are. And so you have to treat them like that. And so the way that I would treat my connections on Instagram to grow my following or to grow my network, I would with people in the industry publicists love to have hang out on Twitter. So Twitter would be another good place to connect. I always say set up the, the method for PR before you actually start creating media kits and pitching the media because the, to be? successful in PR is daily deposits. it's showing up for, you know, 20 minutes a day and feeding that PR engine kind of like you would on social. Diane: it's kind of like the opposite of what I was saying about how I feel when I get pitched. It's almost applying what I would want to have happened to me. To somebody else, which is for somebody else to make friends with me first, before they just go full on into the like, oh, can you do this thing for me? That would be fab. Renee: Yeah. So I remember it. So a lot, two weekends ago I was cleaning the house that we sold and I was, I literally had a toothbrush and I was scrubbing all the window sills because they were dirty. It was a garage and garage doors are open. And just then my realtor real estate agent listing agent came by to check. And she's like, Renee, what are you doing? And I go, I'm cleaning the house. She goes, you don't have to do that. Like, she's thought that was a little bit much. And I go, no, I am doing what I would love someone to do for me. If this was the house that I bought, that I was excited to live in, I would love it if somebody did that and it. Fair enough. And so you think about that mentality is like, that's how you should be approaching people. That's how you should be pitching people is take an extra couple of minutes, get their name, right. When you're reaching out on email or Instagram, It's like find their name and spell it. Right. And use it and be like, hi, Dan, how's it going? I just noticed that you were on the beach with your laptop the other day, and you got a little sand in your laptop. How is your laptop working? And that's the connection. Then you send a little voice note, like you're like she was actually paying attention and this is cool. And you wouldn't believe the conversations that I've had with people that have just gone down this like incredible rabbit holes. Some with some like editors of top magazines. Or like just a conversation, that's it? It's like, I'm no ask. Just like let's be friends. That's all. Diane: Is it a Dale Carnegie quote? Like there's no better sound to anyone than your own name. I get a lot of hi Diana, and I'm always like, you literally just typed my email address or it's like right above you in the Instagram DM box, right? Like one litter does count, you know? Renee: I get the, Hey girl, how's your day going girl? I'm like, oh my God. And I w whenever I have that, because I'm in PR there's a little bit of I guess, what's it called? I don't know the word I'm looking for right now, but I actually have in my notes folder on my phone, a replied to the people that don't even take it. And I go, my name is Renee. Next time you pitch somebody, you could spell my name or spell their name correctly. And I go into a little PR training blurb about how to properly pitch, right. And like, some of them are like, oh, thanks for the tip. And others like, delete block me after that. It's not condescending. I'm giving you advice on how to actually pitch to get somebody's attention. Like even if you just said, Hey Renee, how's it going? Question mark. Oh my God, you got my name right? There is a good start. That's like 50% of the bitch. Diane: bye. Yeah. Or like on Instagram, when you get the email that says like, hello at Diane underscore Mayer, Renee: Yeah. Diane: or like, hello at business strategist, I'm like, great. You Renee: It's like, Yeah. right. Oh, I know the effort. I think we're just we're so. Conditioned to have, like, we think the volume, you think the more we do this, the bigger, the results in terms of like, now it is a numbers game. Right. But without adding personality, without making it personable, then you just get to it. Diane: And I think when we want this business that fits into our life, we have to be looking for really big. For our buck. it's probably gonna take you the same amount of time to send a really impersonal email, as it is to do a one-minute voice note, that's so much more personal. Renee: And it's not hard cause like, I mean all of their information is there, most people share something that you can connect over, like, oh wow. You just got a German shepherd puppy. I got one last year. that's, awesome. How was the training going? Oh my God. Point of connection. When you talk about anyone's kids or animals, dude, they will reply. Diane: yeah, Doug's in my thing, like, show me a Renee: Right. Diane: I will have like a three hour conversation with you. I won't even mentioned my business. No chance. I'm pitching you. I want to know everything about the dog. What's interesting to me is listening to you talk about like how you pitch in this human connection and really relationship building is also probably the thing that's going to allow you to take this off. It's the relationships you have with the people who you have colds with that allow you to say, Hey, you know what? Today's not great. I'm going to go and sit on a boat and have some me time. Do you mind if we move things Renee: right? And, and I, and I would never lie about it too. And I would tell them. But the thing about it is I feel like I have such a strong filter for people that I have on my own show, who I work with, whom having a sales call with that. If they rebuttal by saying, oh, that is so unprofessional of you. And just like, I would be like, I don't, I'm sorry. I have the power to say then fine. It's just not going to work out. Cause I don't want to work with people. And, and like, I also have to respect their journey, what they're going through too. Maybe they did move every single meeting around that day to be with me. And now I'm coming up saying like, you know, within a few hours over call that I want to reschedule. I don't want that hostility. But at the same time, it's like going back to the boundaries thing. I, I need me time. I haven't had a day off in so long and it's not just working. It's moving. It's like kids, it's helping my husband train for his iron man. Nope. This was the invitation I needed to take some time off and I'm okay. But now I don't do it very often. So yes, there's a little bit of guilt inside, but I, I know, you know, sitting there and relaxing and I'll be reading a book, right. I'll be educating myself. Which in the end favors my clients too, because then I can train them on that. So yeah, I think it's okay. You have to give yourself that permission, Diane: and like you said, it's not every day. we had to. Our initial podcast recording because I was in the middle of launching something and honestly had overextended myself. And I reached out to every single one of my interviewees and said soup. Honestly, this is where I'm at. Please. Can we bump this? Every single person was, of course not a problem. So I think when you are surrounded by people who appreciate their life and them wanting to do all the things, rather than just chasing another zero, you do get a different response when you need them. Renee: Yeah, exactly. Well, I know why it's funny because for us it worked out better because initially I was on the west coast, so that was a 6:00 AM interview. And now it's a 10:00 AM interview, so it works out better. So thank you Diane: Of course, everybody wishes that they could be on the boat with you. Renee: right. Well, you guys can join me, just follow me on Instagram Diane: yeah, Renee: and you can come be on the boat with me. Diane: just, I thought that was like an invite to like Canada. It's like, okay, Renee: Yeah, a hundred percent you can jump, just overtake the canoe across the pond. you're welcome to come over. anytime. Diane: So if people are listening to you and they're like, oh, I love all this. I want a bit more Renee. How can they get started with you with PR with your platform, with your podcast? Where's the best place for them to dig in? Renee: So they can follow me on Instagram, Renee underscore Warren, and, and they can find me online. We wild women.com and that's all about what I do. My programs links to the podcast episodes as well, but Instagram and website is probably the best. Diane: awesome. So to finish up, I always like to ask my guests a couple of questions and I'm very interested to hear your answers to these. The first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Renee: Sleep. Sleep is the foundation for success, health, happiness relationships. If you're not getting the sleep that your body needs, you can not be functioning at your house. So I have an aura ring and it tracks my sleep. And I noticed if there was like one or two nights in a row and like there's two or more. nights in a row that are not good sleep. I prioritize my sleep. Again. Hundred percent sleep. Diane: Oh, I'm a big fan. I never went through that kind of teenage. Phase of like staying up till all hours, I'm like, Ooh, it's, it's, it's 8:00 PM. It's bedtime because I wake up naturally without an alarm clock at 5:00 AM. I have done my entire life. It's very irritating to everybody else, but I'm the same as you, like, I know that I need seven and a half, eight hours, so I need to be winding down by eight o'clock. So I'm like a total grandma most of the time, but. but. it beats being a total bitch. Two days into a sleep deprivation is how I think about it. Renee: Well, then you're just optimizing your, your days for when you become a grandma's your grandma days. You'd be like, I've been doing this for years already. I'm just going to keep owning it. Diane: You know, it's exciting then I can maybe like bounce up to 10 hours a day, and then finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entree? Renee: Oh, wow. Okay. A lot. One thing that just kind of comes up right now is, and this was advice I got from my, a pretty predominant marketing person in this space that you have to be on every social media channel. And I'm like, Ooh, well has a time to do that. I mean, unless you have an entire marketing department and you have like a big team for sure. Because in my perspective is if you're going to be on a channel, like do a good job. Now I always say, get the name for every social media platform that comes out. If you can't go sign up crazy. But just park. It don't feel like you need to use it. And why I say that because, Hey, maybe you find out that you have been using tech talk, but you realize that your demographic is there. Then why not jump on tech doc? Now you can have your handle. So go sign up. But only really focus on the channels that convert. So like when she said this, I was like, okay, so now I have to be on Twitter, Snapchat, Tik TOK, Pinterest, Facebook, LinkedIn. I was like, There's different strategies for different networks. I don't have the time for this. So when I found over the course of time, the channels that work best for me, I'm like, I'm just honing, honing in on these. Diane: Yeah, cause there's only so much repurposing. Your content can actually do for you. Right? You can repurpose your content so people can find you, but if you're on that platform, you need to engage on that platform. So by the time you've done like half an hour of engagement on every single platform, that's like your work. Renee: Well, and that's why people have community managers, Diane: right. Renee: it's still, but it's still like outside of that, it's still working. Choir's your investment of something. Cause you have, whether it's like you're managing the team, that's managing those accounts. You still have to have those creative meetings, like the feedback, the creative input, all that stuff takes time. It's not to say you can't dabble in other channels while focusing on one or two, but you know, being everywhere and being for everyone is the worst advice. So like, Some of my clients, when we first do an onboarding session, I asked them like, have you done your ideal customer worksheet yet? Yes or no. And if they say yes, and their ideal customer is a man or a woman between the age of 20 and 60, that lives somewhere in the world. I'm like, okay, we got to get super specific because then we tell you the more specific you get with your target audience, the more money you make, people don't understand that they don't. I have one woman, she's a, she's a client of mine. She runs a company that does immigration paperwork for lawyers. It's very specific. And I was like, what does that mean? So she's a paralegal and lawyers are hired by immigrants to help them with their paperwork, to get a green card to live in the United States. And then we've been on a couple of calls together and we had a big realization this week, that the majority, if not all of her. Kind of like her customers in terms of lawyers are immigration lawyers for Spanish speaking immigrants. And I was like, oh, okay. So then let's be more specific. You are a immigration whatever case prep for lawyers that serve the Latino markets. She goes, I love that because all of her team is bilingual Spanish. And that felt good because now she knows as like, yes, for sure she can help somebody. That's trying to come in from Italy or England. They're not going to say no, but this is specific. And what happens now is those lawyers feel more comfortable. And when she has to communicate with the immigrant guests, what they can speak Spanish, they trust her. They're more comfortable in the more at ease with the whole process because it's. a lot of paperwork. And I taught her this week. What, what I just taught you about using Instagram. And we went on really quickly at the end of our call. We found five lawyers and they're mostly female lawyers and five female immigration lawyers in the United States. And I was like, go reach out to them, interact with them on Instagram because all she needs is 30 to 40 good partnerships with other lawyers. For her to be making a million dollars a year. Diane: Yeah, that's such a referral based industry, Renee: Yes, exactly. I was like, I know this works, like let's build relationships. Diane: especially for that one, like that, the Instagram strategy works on that one way in my head, I would have assumed she would have had to go LinkedIn where you can use the same strategy. It's just a bit more of a formal strategy. It's less about their dog and more about, Hey, I read Renee: What that's the thing is like on Instagram is like, you can see how active they are very easily LinkedIn as well. But if these people are actively using Instagram and they're talking about business, it's like, it's an open invitation for you to reach out to them about business, because that's what they're talking about. And that was just like two minute first scroll. There was five to 10 ideal lawyers for her to reach out to like, let's just try this out. Diane: Awesome. Well, this has been fabulous. Thank you so much. I'm going to encourage everybody to slide into your DMS. start the conversation, ask how the day on the boat. Tell her what you loved about the episode. We like to hear those sorts of things. But this is amazing. I hope you have a fun afternoon off. Thank you for fitting me in, even though you need it today. I appreciate it. Renee: Oh, thanks for having me. This was so much fun.