How To Use A Book As Your Lead Magnet (Even If You Don’t Want To Write It) with Jyotsna Ramachandran

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Jyotsna Ramachandran is a best-selling author book, publisher, TEDx speaker, and also success coach. She helps coaches and experts build super profitable author funnels with the help of their book. Hey, jots. Now, welcome to the show. [00:00:14] Jyotsna: Thank you so much, Diane, for having me on here. [00:00:16] Diane: I'm excited to dive into this, but let's start with a quick intro, a little bit about you and your. [00:00:22] Jyotsna: Well, yes. So I'm super passionate about helping busy entrepreneurs to finally convert their expertise into a best-selling book. I don't have 20 years of experience in publishing or anything like that. happened by chance when I decided to start an online business so that I can, I can be a stay at home mom and run a business. And that's how I stumbled over. The concept of self publishing through Amazon. I did it very successfully with a few books for myself, then I [00:00:49] Diane: Um, [00:00:49] Jyotsna: requests from real authors as to how they can, you know, [00:00:53] Diane: um, [00:00:53] Jyotsna: Ideas into books. And I really wanted to help them. So I put a team together and I started happy self publishing years ago. I'm, So blessed that I've been able to help more than 400 authors from 35 different countries. Thanks to the online nature of. [00:01:09] Diane: So happy self publishing is kind of an agency model. So you have a full service process to help somebody get their book from idea to being published. [00:01:18] Jyotsna: exactly because I feel authors should stick to what they can do best, which is probably you know, about different ideas that they want to into a book, and also look at how that can be marketed and. Reaching the right kind of readers. Those are the things that an author should be doing not spend time trying to learn canvas so that they can do the cover design or learn book formatting and try doing it themselves because that's not their expertise, They're not full-time author. So there are two types of authors. So there are these passionate writers who publish multiple books a year, these are some people who are so focused about the whole process that they want to learn. Everything. Do they may still outsource that they want to learn it themselves, which I totally agree. And I used to do it that way before, but there are also who are not necessarily full-time writers. are running a business, they are a coach or a consultant some kind of an expert. and they just a book So that they can position themselves as the go-to expert in their niche. So those are the kinds of people. [00:02:25] Diane: So if we are in the entrepreneur base and they predominantly want the book as a credibility builder, as, a way to drive business for them, what would that sort of standard book funnel actually look like? Where is the book sitting? Is it at a lead magnet stage? Is it a warm audience? nurture moment. [00:02:44] Jyotsna: Yeah, this is such a [00:02:45] Diane: Ah, [00:02:46] Jyotsna: So I'll tell you the typical auto funnel that I would like all our clients to have people actually have most of these elements, but they are usually not tied together as a proper funnel. that's what we have with. So right at the top of the funnel is the book a lot of people may find you through your book. for example, Diane, you help people have great Their organization. So when people have challenges with their team members, when they're getting burnt out and they had these kinds of problems, they will probably look for a book can solve that problem through Amazon. So that's the first step, once somebody reads the book and they totally love What they've read, they want to actually learn. They want to understand more about the author [00:03:25] Diane: about, [00:03:25] Jyotsna: in connection with the author. So this is where the second stage of the funnel comes And that's called the, free value level. So at this free value level, the author has to offer more value in terms [00:03:36] Diane: Um, [00:03:36] Jyotsna: A podcast or a blog or a video series on YouTube so that the doesn't forget the author after reading the book, but actually continues the conversation outside of. And move from the book to the author's website. That's the big idea. So this has to be something that can be offered on a consistent basis the author. So that's the free value level. after the free value level comes through, next one called the paid value level. This is where trusts you so much because they've been following your work for awhile they now want to start getting some results. The book has solved the purpose of inspiring them to take action, but then. Seeing any results get, so they may want to buy your a $97 online course or something like that. And once they get that quick win, after that, this is when they are really serious about getting some big results then comes the premium value level. This is your done for you services for your, that particular reader, or it could be a one-on-one coaching or group coaching, something that's at a premium. So in this whole funnel, One thing that authors miss out how do you bring people from your book your website? So that's the connection between your book and the free value. So when you write a great [00:04:51] Diane: um, [00:04:51] Jyotsna: You have to also make sure that you have Corita magnet inside the book. Because even if you sell a million copies on Amazon, they are not, they don't go to give you the names and email ideas of people who your book. Unfortunately, it's, the author is responsible. To strategically create reader magnet the book, which is basically a free download or assessment, something it's similar to the lead magnet of your website, but you give it exclusively for the readers of your book by placing it in multiple places throughout the book. So that the reader who's serious about taking the next step does not miss this opportunity and gives you name and email. So that's how you capture their lead. And then you nurture them through your email sequence And bring them into your. [00:05:35] Diane: And what have you seen work really well for a reader magnet? Do quizzes work really well or is it extra information? Some authors I've noticed will be like, Hey, if you want to see the diagrams, go to X, Y, Z URL. [00:05:49] Jyotsna: So I would say that if you're really serious about your book project, then don't be satisfied with just one reader magnet, because there are different types of readers to whom different types of reader magnets could appeal. For example, I love taking assessments, right? So if any author tells me that I, I'm going to tell you your entrepreneur archetype by taking this quiz. Definitely. But if somebody is going to offer a 30 minute one-on-one call, a [00:06:15] Diane: Um, [00:06:16] Jyotsna: Of freedom may get excited. Somebody else may not get excited about that. are some things that really worked well, like the assessment, an action guide that goes with the book or even you know, a three-part video series or something like that is great. Or if you're a new entrepreneur or a new coach who has all the time and you want to speak to a lot of people, please give away your 30 minute call inside. But just don't be giving one thing. So what I would suggest is let all your free bonuses be directed to one URL, one web page, whatever is your book, name.com or your website.com forward slash bonus. Tip everybody to that page and let people decide which one do they want to download. so that just because somebody is not interested in your webinar, it doesn't mean they should the opportunity of your assessment. So have three or four. And sprinkle them throughout the book, but let all of them direct the reader to one landing page so that they give their name and email and they can access all your reader, magnets for free. [00:07:13] Diane: that also solves a problem where you were talking about the 30 minute call and I was like, that's probably be great. Like if you have time now, but your book could live for 10 years and in 10 years time, 30 minutes of your time could be worth $10,000. But I guess if you're sending them all to one URL, you can also control access to what bonuses that they're getting. [00:07:34] Jyotsna: And that's one great thing about self publishing your book, [00:07:38] Diane: Okay. [00:07:38] Jyotsna: at any point of time you can go back and also change the details of your book, the bonus, add an additional chapter, do whatever you want, you have control over the whole process. So yeah, you can, as you said, a year later, you may want to change the bonus to suit your. [00:07:55] Diane: I didn't realize that it was that easy to go in and an amend when you were self publishing. So as we're on the self-publishing conversation, I've heard you speak about this before, and I thought it was really interesting how you explained it, but let's talk about self publishing versus traditional publishing. Does it matter which route you go [00:08:16] Jyotsna: So this is a question that's so difficult to be answered, but I'll give it a try. So I am a huge advocate of self publishing because it's served me really well when I published my book, job escape plan. that's why when I started happy self publishing, I wanted the name self publishing to be on my company's name, because I'm always going to help authors retain their rights and royalties and, make this a very smooth and fast pro. So that from the time they have an idea, they can actually get their book published in less than three months and [00:08:46] Diane: um, [00:08:46] Jyotsna: The benefits. And that's only possible when you self published. So I don't run a publishing agency. I actually just help authors with whole process. And then we publish the book inside their own Amazon account. way all the money that the author makes directly comes into their bank account. But if you ask me, [00:09:05] Diane: Um, [00:09:05] Jyotsna: Publishing bad? No, not at all. It's just that it's not. Accessibility to a lot of people. because they want to get traditionally published. A lot of people waste years of their life and they don't have a book published at all. let me just explain this in a better way. if you are let's say a person who already has thousands and thousands of people following you, you're already an Instagram superstar. You have a huge audience, or you are a celebrity. You know, you are a sports person or somebody. Whose life people are interested in, then even the traditional publishing house will be interested to publish your story because they know that the book is going to be a hit. People are curious to know your story. So in that case, the chances of getting a yes from a publishing house is very high. Otherwise let's say you're a author, you're a new entrepreneur. You probably have a very small email list and, nobody really knows you. What happens is you need to go through a traditional publishing and literally. [00:09:58] Diane: Um, [00:09:58] Jyotsna: So I literally agent will introduce you to a publishing house the chances are like a 1% out of the manuscripts they get. They only select 1%. So most people get rejected and as a result, they get dejected and they feel that their work is not worth it. Or even if [00:10:17] Diane: uh, [00:10:18] Jyotsna: It may take a couple of years for the publishing house to actually publish your book. And even if they are. You will hardly get five to 10% of the royalties goes to the publishing house. So if you're an entrepreneur who wants to get the book out fast and you want to retain the rights and royalties, and you're confident that with a small platform, also, you can still market your book to reach the right audience. Then you should definitely self publish a book and not wait for a publishing house to give their stamp of approval that you are manuscript is worthy of being. And these days, Dan, I see a lot of people with huge audiences also going for self-publishing because of the advantages of it. But, you know, there are certain disadvantages, for example, you may not have your book in every bookstore. So the next time you go to an airport, you may not be able to post with your book, So those are certain things that you have to miss out on when you publish. But what I've heard from my traditional published friends is that happens only for the first week afterwards. If your book is not selling, it's going to go back to the warehouse. So it's just a momentary joy that you get to see a book in a bookstore when you go with a traditional publisher. So in the longterm, I think self publishing has way to, more, to many advantages as compared to. [00:11:30] Diane: I liked the idea. The book is kind of the education element that you didn't lead people down the funnel to maybe the implementation or support space, but that's a lot of work for like a lead magnet, right? Because you could have a PDF where you can have a quiz. And even though it quizzes a lot of work, that's still less work than writing a book. So from an ROI perspective, when we're thinking about a book funnel in particular as an entrepreneur, All we thinking, Hey, this book is also going to make me loads of money or are we thinking actually the money is coming downstream and this is just a really good lead magnet into that process. [00:12:08] Jyotsna: Yeah, so I've spoken to a lot of my clients Diane, and what they say. Nice to your book sales coming in. A lot of people have actually got the ROI back a year after the book is published only through the book sales. However, that is still a small fraction of the money that they've made as compared to the money that has come through the entire funnel. So let's say you've sold only a hundred books out of the hundred people, 30 people have signed up for your lead magnet because you've created this fantastic reader magnet. So they are not following you. But out of those 30, maybe five people go to the next level and they buy your online course let's say $200 or something like that. But out of the five, there could be this one person who signed up for your done for you services for 5,000 or $10,000. so just by selling a hundred books, you're just making a hundred dollars. But in the back end, you've made $10,000 and that has helped you recover your ROI within the first month of publishing. But as if you only depend on book sales, then you'll have to wait for months or years to get the ROI from the book project. a lot of authors, they make this mistake of calculating the ROI only through book sales. And as a result, they feel that, oh my God, I don't have the marketing muscle to sell so many books. So let me not do it so well, let me take all the shortcuts and just put a book out there, you know, as I said, going to your neighbor and asking them to do. Doing the cover on your own with your limited design skills. When you do that, what happens is you are damaging your personal brand because readers are smart they are on Amazon, they can clearly differentiate between a self published book that looks self published and a book that looks world-class. [00:13:50] Diane: So I want to touch on what you said there. So if, for example, somebody is going to go the full self published route. Like they're going to do it all themselves, their neighbors going to edit it, et cetera. Would you say then that design is the one thing you would spend money on? Like, even if that's going to fiber and actually getting like a designer to design a book cover, so would that be where you would spend the time or do you think it's more important to have actually somebody professional edited so that the book itself reads really well? If you could only spend money on one thing, where would you spend it? [00:14:19] Jyotsna: only on one thing. oh my God. That's going to be so difficult, Diane, because if you spend only on. for me, I would say [00:14:26] Diane: Um, [00:14:26] Jyotsna: Are essential, but if I let's say the cover is the most important thing, then somebody spends the money on the cover and they end up selling a lot of books because a couple, it looks great. But if the editing is really bad, you're going to accumulate a lot of one star reviews within the first week of launch. And you don't want that because then it's going to damage the longterm Whereas if you only put your money on the editing and you do the cover yourself, or even if you. Even if you go on fiber, you need to have the design, I to pick the right designer. Right? if you don't spend money on the design and you only spend the money on the editing, then nobody's going to even know book is well edited because they're not going to buy the book. So that's why I know I'm going to tell you that you need to spend your money on three things. At least of the cover design. The second is the interior design and the third is the books editing. So by cover [00:15:14] Diane: Okay. [00:15:14] Jyotsna: get it done by a common designer. So our cousin, maybe a great graphic designer. But designing a poster or designing a website is very different from A book cover. you need to work with somebody who has got experience in designing covers the online space, because buying a book from a bookstore is very different from, know, taking on a small thumbnail on Amazon. So the pleasant needs to understand the dynamics of doing it for Amazon. So that's one thing that interior design is important because you need to give a great experience to the reader. It shouldn't look. Your Google doc has been converted into a PDF. It has to flow really well and design wise, it should be easy for the reader to read. so that's why I did Is as important as the cover design when it comes to the editing, I recommend four stages of editing and not just do a quick proofread if you want your book to be world-class. [00:16:06] Diane: We can't just run it through Grammarly and hope for the best [00:16:08] Jyotsna: people say that that doesn't mean I shouldn't use Canva. I shouldn't use Grammarly. No, I use this all the time, but I use Canva for my social media posts. I use Grammarly for my image check, not for my book. It also that's the difference. So, you work with the with an editor, the first round should ideally be the content editing where they read the entire book give you a report on how the content can be in. Has that been a good flow throughout the book or is there something missing between chapter two and three? So, our, our defining To be very difficult to understand in chapter eight. So review the content and give you inputs on that. then the author needs to go back and rewrite certain parts of the book. And once they resubmit the manuscript, the second round is copy editing. So this is where your vocabulary and the sentence structure can be. So that it's easier and better for the reader. The overall writing quality improves in this round. And again, at this round, you as an author and you self publish, you have the right to reject or accept those changes. From my experience, 95% of the changes are usually accepted by authors, but there is that 5% that you, as an author want to retain, you want to keep it the way it is for a certain reason. And this is where you can have a dialogue with your editor and say that want to have it for this week. Sensibility that would understand it. And the third round is the proofreading where whatever has gotten missed out so far in terms of the typos or the And all of that gets polished. We used to stop at this round, but now we [00:17:35] Diane: well, [00:17:36] Jyotsna: a fourth round because after the [00:17:37] Diane: um, [00:17:38] Jyotsna: Formatted, it goes to the interior designer. But sometimes because of the technology, you know, two words could get attached to each other and they could be the. Technical mistakes when the book is formatted. So after the book is formatted, make sure your does one more round of proofreading before it actually goes to print. these are the four stages of editing that I think are super essential. Even if you sell. [00:18:01] Diane: So I like all of this at times, very kind of systematic and process oriented, and I can really get behind that, but I'm curious if. I have a book in me and I don't want to write it, or I don't have the time to write it. So for me, I have a podcast because I cannot consistently blog. So the idea of sitting down and writing, I mean, how many thousand words is a like a general like entrepreneurial. [00:18:27] Jyotsna: 30,000. is the sweet speed [00:18:28] Diane: 30,000. Okay. So the idea of me writing 30 blogs just seems a little far-fetched, you know, and for, for other people, the idea of finding time to write 30,000 words in an already jam packed calendar and life also seems impossible. So. Is having your book ghost written still, technically you writing a book [00:18:53] Jyotsna: okay. So I would slightly change the terminology and call it injured. Writing. 'cause ghostwriting is little different. You would just find a good writer and you give them the topic. They do everything for the book and they submit a manuscript. That's what is ghost writing? But if you're an entrepreneur, then you are most probably already the expert at whatever you're doing and you will not accept somebody else writing a book and you putting your name on it. Right. That doesn't feel real. that's why I suggest engine writing. And that's very similar what you are doing instead of blogging your podcasting. Because for most people, my experience talking comes most naturally writing. when you speak, you are usually having that flow, but when you write, you don't have that flow because for most of us, think we've stopped writing the long format of writing after school. And we aren't trained writers. So unless you're passionate about writing, you don't have to be worried about writing the entire book. So when you work with an angel writer. So this is a process that I by chance when tried [00:19:59] Diane: Um, [00:19:59] Jyotsna: Husband to publish his book. So he is dyslexic, but he's a relationship So he wanted to write a book on marriage he wasn't writing it for a long time. And I actually forced him give me an interview, in fact, a series of interviews. So we first created his books, Who is it for? And what should the, how should the book serve his readers and created all the foundational. Including the book's outline. then I interviewed him chapter by chapter and it was so For him because he just had to sit back and answered and I recorded all the conversations I just went back, listened to it and I wrote it for him. after the book got published, his coaching, you know, started going to the next level. I thought, why not use this as a service for our clients also. So now we offer injured writing and it's something that people have. Because they just have to show up for an hour week. And after about three months, the book is already written. that way I feel still that it isn't their own voice because the angel writer specifically trained in two things. One is in interviewing so that they ask the right questions to extract the right answers and in also retaining somebodies voice and tonality, because that's really important for the author to feel that it is. So a lot of people initially have this hesitation because they feel, oh my God, a book is like my child, can I let somebody else write it? But I feel a book is a collaborative project. It belongs to the author, but the author should be okay invite lot of different people like the designer and the editor and the engine writer to contribute to the project the overall result to look great. No, it's just like a movie. Like if I have a great story, it doesn't mean I can be a great director. Person and a music director, I don't know, need to know all the other skills. I have a story and that is mine. long as I get credit for that, I should be Okey. Right. It's the same thing with the book. You don't have to be a great writer. [00:21:57] Diane: yeah, I liked that explanation of it. And I think also that interview process probably really helps the more entrepreneurial type actually get their thoughts out in a more cohesive kind of ordered manner than if they even just tried, you know, I don't know, talking into a microphone and transcribing it on ATA and hoping for the best that that would somehow become a book. And I liked that you linked it to, like you're asking for help from a designer without any hangups you're asking for help from a proofreader without any hangups. So if I can get your message out then fabulous. So I have a lot of ideas swimming in my head that weren't there before we started talking. How can people who like me now I have some ideas about what they could do. Start to get some help from you. [00:22:38] Jyotsna: oh sure. So if somebody is just thinking about writing a book, but not very clear about what's the topic, what should be the reader, magnet, and all of that. And I would suggest them to check out my masterclass. So just head over to happy self publishing.com forward slash masterclass, have a wonderful training to help you get started. But if you're really [00:22:58] Diane: um, [00:22:59] Jyotsna: Getting started writing. Then I would suggest that you can have a book strategy call with me. So head over to happy self publishing.com forward slash call. And you can schedule a call so that we can discuss your book project and, know, write down the next steps for you. [00:23:14] Diane: awesome. So to finish up, I always ask my guests the same two questions first up, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? [00:23:23] Jyotsna: Two things I can think of. One is my weekly dates with my husband. I will not do any calls or any interviews during those times. So I've blocked it on my calendar. And the second thing is my Zumba classes. I feel my life has completely changed after I started Five years ago, went to drop my [00:23:40] Diane: um, [00:23:40] Jyotsna: Day to her dance class and then the dancing. Got into me and I started doing it. So those two things helped me, you know, feel that I have a very balanced life and I would not compromise it because I want to grow my business. [00:23:54] Diane: oh, I love those too. I guess that could get kind of awkward over dinner where you're going. Just take this call. Hang on a second. Yeah. I don't like the design. It looks like you did it yourself in Canva. [00:24:05] Jyotsna: Well, I would in fact ask my husband also to deposit his phone in my handbag so that he also doesn't get to check his phone. [00:24:12] Diane: Oh, wow. Like even phones are removed from the session. I love it. Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given as an entrepreneur? [00:24:20] Jyotsna: I've just been doing. If you can't do something, just hire a team member. And Last year. I made such a big mistake because I did not know exactly what I wanted. And I did not know [00:24:30] Diane: um, [00:24:30] Jyotsna: Person would be the right fit. I just wanted it to someone to quickly start Initial calls with my clients. And that's something that I really enjoyed. I did not know why I wanted to outsource that. So that was the wrong thing. And I didn't train that person properly. As a result, I didn't know what to expect and they didn't know what to deliver and it became such a big mess. just hiring somebody is not going to save the business or help it grow to the next level, hiring the right people for the right reason for the right task. I think that's super important. And if I see any other entrepreneur making that mistake, I would tell them not to do that. [00:25:03] Diane: Yeah, I think it's a really common mistake because we all just told, just get a VA, just hire a salesperson to do all the selling for you. Just hire this, hire that, but no one actually goes, hang on a second. [00:25:14] Jyotsna: Yeah, [00:25:15] Diane: Let's audit where you actually need some help and then let's find the right person and then let's work out what to do with them. but then you get to experience what it is to have to fire someone and you don't make that mistake ever again. Right. Thank you so much. This has been such a great chat. Where's the best place for people to carry on the conversation with you on. [00:25:33] Jyotsna: I think Instagram would be a great place, so you can check out at the real happy self pub. That's where we post all our publishing related stuff and our weekly live sessions and all of that. [00:25:43] Diane: awesome. I'll make sure to link all of that and the master class in the show notes. Thank you so much. [00:25:49] Jyotsna: lot. Diane, this has been a lot of fun