Why You Should Repurpose Your Sales Page With Kate Wallace

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:25] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Kate Wallace is a copywriter and award-winning journalist who focuses on copy. That is honest, consensual and relational instead of scarcity based pressure and juicing and transactional. Hey Kate, welcome to the show. [00:00:36] Kate: Hi, Diane. I'm really excited to be here with you today. [00:00:39] Diane: So let's start things off with a quick intro to you and your business. [00:00:43] Kate: Sure. Well, I started my. Career actually as a journalist, I was a newspaper editor and writer. And so I really got my writing fundamentals in the news room. I loved that work. It was really interesting. I especially enjoyed my time when I was an arts and culture reporter. I couldn't believe that I got paid to just go talk to artists and look at their work and learn about. There are practices and the work they make I came to copywriting and the business that I have today, actually through a crisis in my family when my son was four and a half, he got kicked out of school. I refer to that time as his Inglorious expulsion. We'd always suspected basically from the day he was born, that he had ADHD and That was quickly confirmed and it was quite severe. I mean, he got kicked out of school. So I had to take a step back. I had to you know, all of a sudden I had a kid who had been going to school on my hands all the time, and I kind of had to quarterback just the care, the response that we're going to have in our family. So it really became apparent that the demands of a full-time journalism job. I could not meet those. As we started to kind of figure out a path forward for my son and my family I still really wanted to retain that flexibility. You know, I want it to be able to be there for him there, her still like a ton of appointments and calls from his new school. I just couldn't go work for someone else and be the mom I wanted to be. And so freelance writing was a natural next step. And you know, I'd always kind of, I think a lot of writers have this idea that they want to go freelance at some point, hang out their shingle. Because writers tend to be independent. I definitely do not like being told what to do. So there's always been that kind of entrepreneurial interest. Freelance journalism, is it just a terribly hard way to make a living? I'd done a few small projects for some friends doing some business, writing some script writing. I'd kind of dipped my toe into what I didn't even know at the time was called copywriting, but I could see that working for businesses that had money, as opposed to constantly pitching media publications, that didn't was just a far smarter way. Earned money to pay the mortgage. And it also looked fun. There's certain constraints to journalism that you just don't get in marketing. I thought that relationship you could have with your clients that interested me in a way that you almost have to keep up this wall as a journalist between you and your subject. So I started my, what I've come to realize was a copywriting business. In the early part of starting my business, I, I had the writing fundamentals. I brought those writing skills from journalism. They, they traveled really well. I knew about story structure. I knew how to show, not tell. And you had to write a good headline. I didn't have the business sense. Like when I first came into it, I looked at business people. I literally thought of them. Capital B capital P like business people. And I just hope like, hell they wouldn't realize that I didn't know anything about business. so really kind of learning the art of copywriting, the strategic sales and marketing side of things has been an organic journey over the past several years. And here I am today. [00:04:16] Diane: Before we dive into some specifics that I have for you around using our copy in different ways, I wanted to chat a little bit about what you consider relational and transactional copy. Just so that everybody's on the same page with you. When you are talking about the kind of copy that works for the repurposing that we'll talk. [00:04:35] Kate: right. I think when I first started copywriting, I had a lot of resistance to sales because so much of what I saw out there, just seeing. So unethical, pressurized, sadistic it just imposed itself on you. And I think we've all experienced whether it's going into a shop where someone's trying to sell you something that like that top, that, you know, looks terrible or the telemarketer interrupting your family dinner or the. You know, sales guy selling you a car and not even listening to your questions. I, you know, I think a lot of us have had really an savory experiences with sales. I mean, even. In my own world, like as a journalist, there was literally a wall in our newspaper office between ad sales and the newsroom. And like, I think as reporters, we held ourselves in this, you know, we are above sales. Like you go and fetch the money for our paychecks, and we're going to do the important work of, you know, preserving democracy here, but we're not going to be tainted by commercial concerns. And as an arts reporter, I'm talking to artists all the time who were essentially entrepreneurs. But the resistance to commercialization this idea that if you're thinking about sales, you're selling out, that was kind of percolating. I'm Canadian. So this idea of self promotion, you know, our, our culture of modesty is strong. And I think it's especially strong in Atlantic Canada, where I live. We, you know, it's a place where self-deprecating humor and not being full of yourself. Like those are the cultural, those are some like little C cultural values. So I just had all this resistance to like the gross sales that I saw. And I think some of those just personal experiences had made me even more resistant. I think transactional sales and transactional sales copy is when it feels like it's being imposed by one person upon. When it feels like there's only going to be one winner, the salesperson when it sales at any cost when you're not looking for that good fit. Whereas I think of relational sales copy is it's that or relational sales in general. It's, it's kind of finding that sweet spot between you as a service provider or someone who has that. That you want to offer who could truly benefit from that. And finding that place in the middle of sales is just the connection point where your offer and their need are meeting. and it's, there's something true in that too. both parties came to it. With consent there wasn't pressure. And it was, and I think that's like, you don't need pressure if it is actually truly valuable because you'll naturally meet there. You don't need to force someone into buying what you're offering, because they naturally see the value. If you positioned it. Well, [00:07:33] Diane: So what came to mind for me immediately, as you were describing those two kind of counterpoints to each other is the, this is not for you section of a sales pitch. And I can remember a friend has she's amazingly talented at what she did. And I read her sales page and I was desperate to work with her. Like I loved her, I loved everything about what she did and I got to the, this is not for you section. And I was like, oh, actually, I'm not ready for this. [00:07:57] Kate: right. [00:07:58] Diane: those, this is not for you sales sections. That kind of go, this is not for you. If you're not a go getter, this is not for you. If you don't believe in yourself, right. It's almost those like, I'm like, it's not for you. If shaman juicing statement, [00:08:14] Kate: Right. Like, this is not for you. If you're a big loser who just can't, you know, you don't have what it takes to work with me. [00:08:20] Diane: Right. So that came to be like that sprung into my mind as you described those two types of conversation, really specifically. So when we've put in all this effort, so we've walked that fine line, we're having this beautiful conversation. We're being super open about what we can do, what we can't do, who we can help inviting people in. I think into that kind of sale, that's a lot of work or a lot of. [00:08:44] Kate: It is [00:08:46] Diane: in It and it's taking you a long time, it takes me a good while to write my own sales pages, you've spent a lot of money to have someone professionally do that for you. And I have so many sales pages from things. I've maybe tweaked and I don't offer that exact product anymore. I have a lot of copy. That's written that I do nothing with. So I'm curious as to how I can maximize this. Like, I have done all the work to write this beautiful relational copy and no one is reading it because that sales page just no longer exists or, you know, I mean, obviously I have current ones as well, but it's really the bank that fills me with. [00:09:25] Kate: right. Well, I think a good way to think of your copy is you never want to think of it as one and done like your copy and your content. And, and I'll talk about sales pages specifically in. But that is just such an incredible waste of all of the energy and money that you put into it to only have it live in one place or only be shared one time or in a very particular way. there's [00:09:53] Diane: think of them as two different things. to give you perspective on how my brain is working. [00:09:58] Kate: yeah. [00:09:58] Diane: copy as the stuff that's on my website, that's doing the selling for me. [00:10:04] Kate: Yes. [00:10:05] Diane: as is everything else. [00:10:07] Kate: mind, [00:10:08] Diane: in your mind, that one thing. So I'm already like, whoa, hang on. [00:10:13] Kate: well, yeah, [00:10:15] Diane: go together? [00:10:18] Kate: maybe, you know, just going back to that word, we were just talking about relational. I think of copy and content. There should be tons of overlap and there should be tons of re-purposing because it's just gold. So I think, you know, with any copy that you create, there's always content opportunities, many of them, and with sales copy specifically, I think it's particularly valuable. In fact, I, I think it's probably the most valuable copy that we create because it is action oriented. Like there's, you know, we want someone at the very least. to book a calland at the very most to put that in the cart and lay down money and buy it. So it has a real intent. And from having written tons of website copy and tons of sales copy I've started to notice that the sales copy is just almost always better. It has It has an energy that website copy doesn't. And I think, you know, that that action that outcome that it's driving towards is part of the reason. I also think that in sales copy, it's exhaustive. You're speaking directly to your ideal customer, you're naming their challenges. You're talking about how you have a solution. You're getting into real nuts and bolts stuff. Like this is how it works. Like this is how my solution works. So you've explained like kind of practical things. You've put a price on it. You've talked about a lot of your own. Why's like, why me? Why now? Why this offer. You've overcome objections. You've answered questions. Like it's, it's like it's all there. Whereas if you think of [00:11:55] Diane: yeah. [00:11:57] Kate: website copy can be for a lot of different purposes. And I think sometimes that might dilute its impact sometimes because you know, it's for education it's for credibility is for awareness, sales copy just has that. That push and that oomph I think with sales copy to people often, if you're writing your own, they they're more comfortable bringing their own personality in. Like, I think they inherently understand that I got to show myself here to make it stick. All of your copy is gold, but sales copy is like platinum. [00:12:27] Diane: Right. You're not sitting down to write a sales page, like you said, without that really defined outcome of what you want that person to do, also you have spent that time. writing. So specifically to that one person, and like you said, hitting all those points, but you've spent like a day writing it another day, editing it day, tweaking it. Like, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not spending a day on a social media post. [00:12:52] Kate: No, but once you've done your sales page, you don't have to. [00:12:56] Diane: But it's never connected for me. The reason they feel so different is the intent behind them because I have CTA in my social media. They're just much more gentle and much more like come hither versus come by [00:13:10] Kate: Yeah. we really name what we want someone to do. Sales is in the name. If you're feeling shy about sales, it's almost like, well, this is a place you have permission to be explicit. I think that's it. They're explicit rather than implicit they're action oriented versus awareness oriented. But to, to answer your question, You can definitely take your sales page and very efficiently generate a crap ton of really awesome content. Would you like me to just walk through some? [00:13:40] Diane: I'm ready. Tell me everything. Start at the beginning. Leave nothing out. [00:13:44] Kate: So here's where I would start look at your sales page. Copy. And look at your website, copy, and think about what Brittany's sales page is just a general statement that could live on my website. Like it's a great place to look for ways to snap up website, copy that's maybe a little stale or tired, or just a little kind of flabby or lacking in energy. At sales pages can be like a really great source of that kind of Sparky energy. Cause the copy just tends to have more. In it actually. So, I would definitely like revisit your own website copy and see where you can borrow some messages or translate or repackage some of your, your copy from sales page to website. [00:14:30] Diane: I guess. We update our sales pages more frequently than we look at the rest of our website. Copy. So if our messaging has tweaked, it's been tweaked in the sales page probably before reached the tagline on your homepage or whatever. [00:14:44] Kate: For sure. And I mean, I think a lot of people with their websites, once those projects are very often long and painful and by the time the website goes live, no one wants to look at it again. So, you know, we're not having a reviewing our websites. We should, and, and reviewing it like the, your sales page is a really good opportunity to have that look that fresh, look and look for ways that you can do. Stuff you've said over here and bring it, bring it over especially on your about page, because I, for all the reasons we talked about, I think your sales page about section, it just tends to have so much more life and customer connecting wise than the way we generally write about or about pages. So that brings me to my next point is I think sales page copy. And that kind of about you. Why me? Why did I create this offer? Our social media bios, and I'm specifically thinking of LinkedIn a lot. I would have guessed that a lot of your audience is more Instagram. Instagram's a lot more fun, but when it comes to business outcomes, I think a lot of times. I really don't put as much energy and effort as it could into their LinkedIn bio. And on your sales page, you've written this great snappy snazzy, like very customer focused That's just gold to have a real standout LinkedIn profile. So you have an opportunity to take also some of your sales page content and turn it into really great standout links. Pieces. So, I mean, when you think of a sales page, every section of it overcoming your client's objections, you know, kind of named like why they might be resistant to buying from you, that's a post or that could even be a series of posts for all of your social platforms whichever ones you love and are most comfortable on. [00:16:44] Diane: So, would you take that as your kind of starting point and expand on that? Like maybe you've got a really great frequently asked question. One of mine for my VIP day is I barely have time to eat, sleep, or go to the bathroom. Where am I supposed to climb these three hours to spend time with you? And my answer is all about why you need to create time in your business. just pulled that one as it just one that came to mind. that become a post around creating time and your business for things that are important? [00:17:10] Kate: There's a lot of different ways you can do it. And a lot of different types of content you could create. I think of it as breadcrumbs. So, you know, you could break it down into little pieces. You could do a series of short social media. That like, maybe it's a week where you, you T you know, your, your theme of the week is time and, and even just using, like, you can lift like word for word copy from your sales page, like that is okay. And use those in short posts, you could also expand upon it. Like, if you really want to dive deep All the reasons that know, you can find three hours and that's worth it. You could do a longer form post, and of course you could do like a longer form piece of content, like a blog post, a podcast. So I think of the, the copy can become the basis of content that's been. Elastic or like an accordion, like, you know, the breadcrumbs or the little pieces that are leading you to a sales page or maybe to that blog post or podcast, that's like a more expanded version. Not to mix metaphors, but I, I always think of it. Like, there's the breadcrumbs and then it's like the lemon. So the lemon is like the big piece you want to squeeze and In this case, it could be your, your sales copy that you think of as the lemon, or it could be an expanded blog posts that you then break into smaller pieces. But it's very there's almost like this interconnected web of content pieces that are all mutually reinforcing and they're consistent and they're all kind of leading to each other. [00:18:46] Diane: So while I'm listening to you explain that what I'm kind of seeing in my head, because I always like to see, like, what is the big picture look like with all of these pieces together? And I feel like that sales page has been written almost like a love letter your ideal client. It's all the things you think that person needs to hear. I know the creative in you is going to shutter when I say this, but it's kind of a checklist. These are all. the important things. I believe somebody who's ultimately going to work with me needs to know. And therefore, how have I hit these in all of my forms of contact? Whether that's okay. It's a one-liner. Is that a quippy one-line post or a quote card? Or is that now the title of a blog post or a podcast episode or a LinkedIn post or an email to my list? [00:19:31] Kate: I love the idea of a checklist. I mean, as you rightly pointed out, I'm a creative person and you can live in this world of creative chaos. But I like that idea of I, I think even like literally creating a checklist is a great idea. I might steal that from you, Diane. but to [00:19:49] Diane: into your air table, put every single line of your sales page into your air table. And [00:19:54] Kate: write. [00:19:54] Diane: oh, I need content. Here we go. Over there. [00:19:56] Kate: The other thing too, is if you started, like, even if you started small, right, you're literally just pilfering your sales page for one-liners for quote cards. And then you can see what kind of conversation and reaction it gets among your audience. And I think from there too, it's, it's a bit of a self fulfilling. Feeding mechanism. Because if going back to your air table example, like if you kept track of questions, you know, which ones really seem to land, then you're getting some direction to like, okay. I think, I think I've got enough here for a blog post, so you can use it almost as a stimulus for what comes next. [00:20:37] Diane: And I think if we think of it as a feedback loop as well, we often put our sales pages out there and someone can read your sales page. It's very binary. They read your sales page and they buy, or they do not buy. Those are kind of your only two options. But if we're pilfering that, putting it into social media and getting feedback on it, That's allowing us to almost audit that sales page a little bit, being like, well, these five points all sold massively and this fifth pain point, everybody told me they didn't agree with it at all. Yes, we do some market research beforehand and hopefully we're using the right words, but then when you kind of throw our sales pages out there in a vacuum, [00:21:14] Kate: Yeah, I think you're right. It's really good customer Intel. And I mean, thinking of it as this iterative, organic, I'm not thinking of it as a static thing at all. Your copy is in conversation with your content, which is in conversation with your audience. To your point and it's, it's well made that a sales page is binary. You buy or you don't, but the reason I don't buy as not because I don't want to work with that person. It might just be just not now for a variety of reasons. And so I want them to stay in my world. I wanna see what they're up to, whether it's that sales page or their next offer. You know, it's, it's welcome. [00:21:56] Diane: But I think there's no way to know that. Right. So when I say it's binary, I mean, from the data that I'm getting back, all I know is that 10 people went on this page. Two people bought eight people didn't buy. There's no like button on like a sales page. So I love this idea of like able to actually take. That really hard written copy. Like I always joke about that, like blank page of doom, non copywriters. That is again, it's incredibly hard to write a sales page and then to also not know why it's not landing or, you know, which part of it is landing and Yes. you can see where people are scrolling and stuff, but I love this idea as, as a mechanism to get more data. On your sales page, as well as to use your sales page to get more content and the Right. kind of content out to your people. [00:22:43] Kate: Yeah. It makes it a living thing. And to your point too, like you mentioned, and I think this is true for a lot of the coaches course creators service providers is they have. A lot of sales page skeletons in their closet, you know, they've, they've archived old sales pages. And I would say go back to those old sales pages as well, because, you know, I think this is especially true when someone has a launch that's disappointing and in their mind they see it as a flop and they associate it with a lot of like shame and failure and they never want to look at that thing again. And, you know, for whatever reason that the launch didn't hit your expectations. I guarantee you, there's still gems in that copy you can bring, you know, that, but that probably still apply to your business overall. Or maybe you can repurpose some of that old sort of, you know, it's dead to me copy in new sales pages. So, don't ignore that either. [00:23:45] Diane: Yeah, I always joke because I'm a failed blogger, I have an entire content bank of like half or three quarter written blogs. It's just not my genre, but I also have a graveyard of sales pages I've kind of played around with the sales page and it hasn't worked. So I've tried something different, but probably each of those has got at least one zingy, one liner in there. [00:24:07] Kate: You know, I was listening to your podcasts the other day about, are you a starter or a finisher? Like you, I am a starter, you know, I have to like make bargains with myself and the almighty to get something done. I'm picturing in my mind, like you have this sort of semi graveyard of old, you know, we're sales, copy's gone to. Dai go off into the sunset. And you have these blogs that are started, but not finished. And I wonder if you even went through them at the same time. Like, I wonder if you might see the end to some of those blog posts in the copy, like you might see, oh, it's right there. Boom. I'm just going to pick this up, wrap that up and then I can ship it. I can share this thing. Because you're going to come at it with fresh eyes too. You haven't looked at that stuff in a while and that's a. Really valuable perspective. [00:24:57] Diane: yeah, definitely. And I don't delete any old sales pages either. But now in my brand new patent, pending air table system for using your copy, I'll be able to track all of that and nothing will ever get. Again, but this is really kind of expanded for me what I can do with all the effort that I've put into sales pages. And I think that's really important. I think we're always looking for where's the bang for our buck and we already have it. We just haven't connected the dots. So I think you've done an amazing job, but really just expanding that picture for me and allowing me to see copy and content. Talking to each other [00:25:33] Kate: It's all part of your brand, right? If you think of like, you know, Diane as the umbrella, like they're, they're all your little buds under that umbrella [00:25:42] Diane: Yeah. [00:25:42] Kate: be talking to each other. it's like a family, or a group of friends, you know, we tell the same stories. We talk about the same sorts of things and that's so K it's okay it's natural and good actually to repeat yourself. I mean, in business and sales and marketing, it's actually the best strategy. [00:26:02] Diane: And this just gives us a different way to say the same thing hopefully a bit more intention behind her. I have so many ideas. Oh, it's been so good. Okay. So to finish up, I have a couple of questions that I ask all of my guests. The first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? [00:26:18] Kate: that's a really good question. This has been a hard one goal is that I would have at least half a day through the workweek where I just go play outside. So that could be taking off at noon to go skiing. Um, Or going out in the woods just for a hike or I started mountain biking this year and I just feel like a teenager. So for me, that's really energizing and, you know, as a writer too, you're on your butt, your butts in the chair so much like to just feed your physical energy, you bring that back to the writing desk too. So I always think of it as part of my work, even though it doesn't look like writing. [00:26:59] Diane: Yeah, it's an interesting one. Kids. I resonate with that a lot. Not because I do it, but because I don't do it. And then whenever I do it, I come back with like, problem solved or 17 new ideas. And I'm like, Hey, really must go for a walk midday in future. But work always seems more important until you then go do that thing and come back with the 17 ideas and swear that you'll keep doing it. just better at it than the rest of us. [00:27:24] Kate: well, I think I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie and I realized as a writer there's I don't know. I'm sure, you know, there's lots of neurochemical research that's been done, but like with the mountain biking and skiing, something that scares me a little bit. I just I'm flooded with creative ideas after like, I'm going to go write a short story and a screenplay and, oh my gosh, you know, I'm going to pitch magazine articles and do all the other copywriting work. Like [00:27:50] Diane: I've I've cheated death. I have a message for the world. [00:27:56] Kate: exactly. [00:27:57] Diane: I can't relate. I'm like, I'm the type of skier who likes the really like, you know, those like flat windy ones where you, you don't even need to snowplow to slow down. You just basically point your skis in the direction. That's my kind of skiing. then appro ski. [00:28:11] Kate: Well, I, I would meet you at the lodge because you can get a lot of great story ideas around a fire and a glass of wine after you've cheated death on the Hills to. [00:28:20] Diane: they go that I maybe I'll just, that'll be my next inspiration for I'm going on a working holiday to a ski lodge wine. Little baby runs. Ooh. Should plan a retreat. [00:28:36] Kate: I would sign up for that. [00:28:37] Diane: Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given since you started your entrepreneurial journey? [00:28:44] Kate: I think when it comes to content, people tell you there's a lot of rules and one of the worst things I've heard, it's like you have to be on every platform and you have to be posting constantly. And I think that's, we're a one woman shop for a small business that's unrealistic. And I really think it's better to. Put out regular content on the, maybe it's just one or two platforms that really feel like home to you and put out good quality content. And you know, today, hopefully we found some ways to find some, some content sources that maybe people weren't even thinking about, but most businesses have a gold mine of content. That they are not mining. And, you know, in business people say what I was at like seven times harder to get a new customer than to keep on. You already have. Well, it's kind of the same with continents, you know, 10 times harder to make new content than just repurpose all the good stuff that is lying right there under your nose that you're just not seeing. [00:29:44] Diane: I think you're so right. If we could just take the intentional content and put out better content, as long as it's regular, it's probably going to do a better job for us than [00:29:53] Kate: because trying to be everywhere all the time, it's just, that's a path to burnout and it'll actually make you hate making content. It'll make it such a burden and a chore that it'll turn you against it. And that's the last thing you want. You want to find a place where it's at least a little bit fun and pleasurable. [00:30:09] Diane: Yeah, for sure. I think the content weighs heavy on, on a lot of us. So I need today has been super helpful for real. Finding some different sources to mine, because I think a lot of people talk about repurposing your content side of things, not necessarily about how to get the, the fresh piece of content that you can then repurpose into a million pieces of content. So it's been great. Thank you so much for all of the ideas. I know people are going to want to talk to you about this. Where is the best place for them on the socials to carry on this conversation? [00:30:42] Kate: Well, I am on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and it's a story by Kate. And then blogging is kind of my sweet spot. And so I have a blog and newsletter and they can subscribe@katewallace.ca. [00:30:57] Diane: Awesome. I'll make sure to link all of those in the show notes. People can find you easily. [00:31:01] Kate: Thank you. [00:31:02] Diane: I feel like everyone's going to listen to this episode and really expect like a content upgrade for me. So I'm feeling a little bit of pressure, I'm also kind of excited for my new air table system [00:31:11] Kate: So me a pick of that when Thank you so much. It's been so much fun.