The Power Of Podcast Ad And Sponsorship With Jaclyn Mellone

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Hey. Hey, today's guest, Jaclyn Malone, helps experts become the go to authority in their space. She's the host of a top 200 ranking podcast. Go to Gal and the founder of a podcast ads agency, and I'm curious understand how podcast ads work from a podcast or angle, but also as a potential small business advertiser. Hey, Jaclyn, welcome to the show. Jaclyn: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Diane: So let's start with a little intro to you and your business. Jaclyn: Sure. Well, I am Jaclyn Malone, host of the Go-to Gal podcast, and I've been in the podcasting space since 2015. I started podcasting. I've been teaching on podcasting the last number of years, and I still have a mastermind to do some private coaching, but this year we launched Go to Gal Media, which is an agency for. Podcasting partnerships. So you could say podcast ads or sponsorships, but we get really creative with how that works. I'm sure we'll get into that more. But yes, we now have go to GAL Media, which is an influencer type agency for podcasters. Diane: Oh, I really like that. Like podcasting partnerships. So let's start at the very beginning. What kinds of podcasts can run ads? Jaclyn: So, Ooh, this is, this is a good question because the, what people think they need in order to run ads and what they actually need to run ads are two very different things. So one, I just wanna be forthright with, Okay. If you. you. know, if you hear I'll even fresh books or , I don't know, one of any of these like very popular ads that Hello Fresh. Maybe it's like all the companies with Fresh in the name . So any of these brands that you've heard probably on many different podcasts, they typically look for podcasts that have a minimum of 4,000 downloads per episode [00:02:00] Now. I'm not gonna speak to those brands specifically in terms of how much they pay, but the industry standard is using a something called cpm, which is cost per mil, which means cost per thousand. So CPM is somewhere in the range of $18 to $25 per thousand. I'm like jumping into all the data here, but I think it's good to have context, right? So let's just call it 20, cuz that's easy. So let's say you have a thousand downloads per episode. Okay. And one of these brands wants to sponsor you, and they're like, Great, we'll pay you $20. To sponsor an episode. how excited are you gonna be about that? Diane: Yeah, Jaclyn: Oh, how about we do the whole month? We'll give you $80 for the month right now. Here's the kicker. Most podcasts don't have a thousand downloads per episode. So if you have half of that, are they gonna pay you if you have 500 downloads or are they gonna pay you $50 an episode? If you have, if you have 250 downloads per episode, which a lot of podcasts do, Here's five bucks, like here's the whole month, we're gonna give you $20. It's not worth it to advertise with those bigger brands when you're working off that. Right? So , you might be confused now, like, Wait a second, Jacqueline, I was listening to this episode thinking about how can I do this? But this is, this has been the issue in the industry. So the reason why, The biggest shows are getting sponsors and most shows are not, is because at a certain point it just doesn't make sense. And when you start looking at this, even if you have 5,000 downloads per episode, It still isn't. If you look at the size of that business, right? Oftentimes people are saying, Okay, but to go get those sponsors and to coordinate with the sponsors and listen, I'm a podcaster, independent podcaster. Sometimes the biggest brands, you're invoicing them four or five times trying to get paid. It's not always worth, [00:04:00] oftentimes not worth taking that on in that traditional model, and this has left most podcasters. Without the option to advertise. Now that said, , the way that I have thought about this going back to 2016, so when I first launched my, my first podcast with co-host Jessica Stansberry, my first podcast was All Up in Your Lady Business. And we wanted to monetize. And so we set a goal and it was like, okay, as soon as we hit. I think the goal was 10,000 downloads in a month. Then we're gonna go after sponsors. And so we started and after three months we were really close. We, we weren't quite there yet, but we were close, but we were still only getting, It wasn't even 500 downloads per episode. So we were doing multiple times a week and people were listening to our short backlog, but past episode still at that point in time, so would add it up to that. But each individual episode was like, 4 83, 4 92, like we were just there, just under 500 downloads per episode. With that though, and maybe we each had, I don't know, a thousand, a couple thou, I think maybe only a thousand on our email is, I don't even know if I had that many at this point in time. And we had a Facebook group with 800 people. I mean not, there was no like crazy platform at this point. So I just wanna give some perspective here. We didn't have nothing but nothing was huge. Well, we took that and I pitched two sponsors for us. One, we negotiated a deal with the other. We actually became an affiliate form, and I'll, I'll tell that story in a little bit, but with the one that said yes, we were able to negotiate for our under 500 downloads per episode. A hundred dollars per episode for a sponsorship, which going back to that math is way more than we should have ever been able to get paid. [00:06:00] And the reason why we were able to do that was because we pitched our whole platform. So even though it was small, it was engaged and it was focused. And so we were able to say, our audience. Wants this, they, they need this service. We are both using this service. We love your company. We already talk about it on the show. We wanna make this more formal and partner with you in this way. And so that we were doing two episodes a month at that point in time. So we were able to start bringing in $800 a month on this very new podcast. That was really exciting for us. I mean, that allowed us to hire someone to edit. It allowed us to, you know, to get some support and to pay ourselves a little bit. I think we were each taking a couple hundred dollars from it at that point in time. Diane: and I think it's also just that. Like for people who are maybe on the other side of this and aren't in the podcasting realm, at the beginning, it's just that little bit of validation. It's the same when somebody you don't know, slides into your dms and tells you they listen to your show. It's that same vibe when the first stranger subscribes to an opt-in. It's that kind of validation that just is that little push that can keep you going when pod fade is like, Screaming in your ear to to stop or it's not worth it, or This is so hard, or it's so much work. Jaclyn: That's such a good point. I, and I'm very conscious of the pod fade or as Laura Bel Gray said, Pod crash . And I'm like, I think that's the perfect way to like, Yes. How many people pod crash? A lot of, like statistically a lot of people pod crash, right? So if you're able to, to think about, okay, what are the reasons why people pod crash, right? Well, one is that they don't have a clearer purpose. For the podcast, which is a whole nother, whole nother conversation, right, of, okay, why? Why are we doing this? How is this gonna be a growth engine for your business? But oftentimes different than other tools or social media out there, there are expenses associated with having a podcast. Sure, you can do it in an affordable way, but there are still expenses. And so [00:08:00] even if you're not gonna be making, you know, full time income or millions off of your sponsorship, having that bit come in, that can support getting. Support for you to be able to keep putting on this show is huge and can really be the make or break. Diane: So what does the podcaster actually need? So I do wanna talk about the people who put the ads on, but as we're talking about the podcaster and the downloads and that sort of side of thing, what do you actually need, like tech wise, contract wise, content wise, because, We've probably never thought about this because we don't have hundreds of thousands of downloads and therefore are not getting big sponsorship deals, so we're not really even thinking about it. Jaclyn: Exactly, and there's really, there's not much that you need. You don't need to have as many downloads as maybe you think you need to have. And in fact, with our agency, we're able to work with podcasters that sometimes have audiences. With a hundred downloads per episode. And the reason why we're able to do that one, we're able to to do a multi-platform campaign. So it's their whole platform, but we're also working with sponsors where they're sponsoring 10, 20, you know, maybe, maybe eventually 50 at a time. Right now we've capped out at 20 at a time. Because they're in this group of other podcasters, it it, they don't have to have all of the listeners just on their show. It's this aggregate that's the collective of podcasts that are all getting sponsored together and the sponsor is benefiting from that collective impact. So smaller shows are, are able to participate in that one. Maybe it just would be too, Hard for them to do that on their own. Now, in terms of what you actually need, if you are going to pitch on your own to go get these sponsors, they're likely going to be looking for a media kit. So with that, you're gonna need to know about your listeners. Now, if you're working with an agency, like Go to Gal Media, we don't need you to have a media kit, but we wanna know about your listeners too. We're gonna wanna know, okay, how many downloads are you getting per [00:10:00] episode? At that 30 day mark, that's a, a really good sponsors typically look for that. So we've taken that same model on too, to say, Okay, after 30 days, most of your audience has listened to that episode. What are those downloads per episode? And then we can also look at the downloads for your whole month. Oftentimes shows that have been around for a while. Have a lot of people listening to the backlog and tools, like most hosts these days now have the ability to add on an ad pretty easily to all of your episodes. So that allows you to then get those download numbers up so you can be making more Oh, and as a sponsor it's like, okay, well if we can be everywhere on this show for a month, and yeah, there's a lot of value to that. Right. So knowing your numbers is going to be key, whether you're doing this on your own or through an agency, knowing as much as you can about your listeners. So some big brands may want you to have this in a formal media kit where you would do a survey and you would say, You know, 82% of our audience are female and this percentage are moms, or this percentage are entrepreneurs or work from home or stats like that. Clearly not everyone in your audience is going to. Partake in the survey, but spoil alert, most polls are not . Most polls and surveys are just a sample size as well, so that is okay. If you have just a percentage of your audience answer, that usually gives you a good idea of, of how that would map out across your whole listenership. So having some of those insights is going to one, help you see better what sponsors are gonna be a good fit and help you communicate the value of your show better. Diane: What is the benefit of going via you to find those people who might be willing. go on a small business one. So going to an agency versus going out and being like, Oh, hey, I use this [00:12:00] software, or I'm a huge fan of this person that I've really worked with , and pitching them directly. Jaclyn: It all depends on the person and the podcast, right? And that's why I like to be upfront, like I got my first sponsor just by emailing like, Yes, you can do that right now. You can do that now too. Especially if you have someone in mind. The benefit to working with an agency, like what we do at Go to Gal Media on from the podcaster perspective is a couple of things. One, We just bring you, That's like, here's money , here's, here's your sponsor on a silver platter. do you wanna get paid? Cause I have someone that wants to pay you. So, So one is, it simplifies that most of us, Most of the podcasters that, that we're working with, their main business is not making money from their podcast. Right. Many of them have never had a sponsor before, even. Right. So, learning this whole new skill and taking time to pitch and find those brands and negotiate the deals back and forth. I mean, this, I use myself as a, as part of the inspiration to create. I feel like I, you know, scratched our own itch with my podcast, but I look back some of these deals we've done. 28 emails back and forth with a brand to negotiate a deal. , right? So you do that and then we, and then we're invoicing multiple times and when are we getting paid and how is this working? And so the logistics of it, especially when you're. Starting at, okay, even if it's not incoming, but now I gotta find the people. That's a lot to take on. And if it's still gonna pull you away from your core business, there's gonna be a point where you're gonna say like, Okay, is this really worth it? How much of my, myself and my team's energy can go towards, towards finding the deals and also negotiating them so one aspect that. Is honestly a reason why people don't get sponsors is because they're like, How do I do that? Or, I don't have the time to do that. So sometimes it's, it's not even a matter of like, do I wanna do it myself? But it's like, [00:14:00] Oh, somebody can do that for me. Now what I will bring up is because some of the podcasters we're working with are getting deals through. Companies that do this. So not necessarily an agency, but I'll say Zencaster does this. So if you, I don't know how you get into the network, but I know that there's a, a way that you can get deals through Zencaster. What they pay and what we pay are very different. We are able to, And you would think like, Oh, I would think this agency is kind of boutique. You know, agency is gonna, No, we are able to pay our podcasters way more than they're getting from brands like that because they are working. One with a lot of these brands that are just going off of CPM and so they're not thinking of the whole platform, so they're not tapping into one the full value of what is out there. So they're not able to pay as much cuz they're not getting as much value because they're doing it in this more scalable way. They're just like looking at black and white. Okay, cpm, this is what it is. And then Zencaster is taking a cut of that in a pretty big cut. There's a lot of ones out there like that that are easy to get them, but they're not. They're not gonna pay as much as an agency like us who's putting together more complicated deals because they're multi-platform. But because they're multi-platform, it's more beneficial, one for the podcaster cuz we're able to pay them more. Even if you do have, you know, 5,000 or 10,000 downloads per episode, you still, you likely have a large engaged audience. So let's be charging more for that. And if you do have a smaller audience now it puts you in the game where it's worthwhile to play. And on the sponsor side. It's worthwhile for them to paint. You're like, Well, why would the sponsors want to pay more? Because they get more. Right? Because just mentioning a brand, just running an ad on your podcast a couple of times is not gonna convert. As well as if your audience is hearing that and then they get an email from you [00:16:00] and then they see a social post and those back links are in, are in your show notes, right? It's, it's this full multi-platform touch that. Sure, someone might be more likely to just click a link in email anyway, but once they've heard it on the show, they're more even more likely to click that link. Right. Whereas maybe when they were listening to the show they were driving or folding laundry and they weren't ready to do that click, so, The trend right now with ads on podcasts is going towards highly scalable ways that are benefiting the big companies that are doing this, right? So it's like, okay, let's place commercials on your podcast cuz that takes no effort from anybody and we can just air commercial on your show and pay you a couple cents for it. It's like the Google sense or the ad sense Google. Sense of podcasting, right? Like we can't really pay you much for this, but we're just gonna throw some commercials on there. And I don't think that's really benefiting the sponsors. I don't know how long lived that'll be, but maybe if they're paying so little, there might be something to it. For the podcasters though, you don't have control over the messaging of it, and it's this. From my perspective, which I'm very deep into podcasting, but the magic of the podcasting platform is the relationship between the host and the listener. It's, there's so much no love and trust there. There's this intimacy of like, we have earbuds in and we're, you're taking the podcaster places with you. Some people shower listening to podcasts, like this is a very intimate situation here, And so when the. Even if they're not endorsing an ad, when the host reads that ad, there's value to that. Radio knows this. They've been doing it for a very long time, and sure there's commercials on the radio too, but those radio announcer red ads, Convert the best. And it's the same thing with podcasters. So in order to be making the most as a podcaster, you wanna be leveraging the most value, which is how we structure the deals. And that is you [00:18:00] being, you reading it, the host red ad and multi-platform. And so that means the host can make more money and the brand, the sponsor is gonna get a better result because of it. Diane: That makes sense because as a podcaster, I am very aware of who my guests are I get pitched by a lot of people who are not a fit, who get very quick nos. Most of my guests have been pitched by me as people I already know, have some kind of relationship with. And I think in this day and age, that gets more and more important, right? To be in control of the messaging of your podcast. To me, the idea of people being able to run whatever ads they're like on my Lovingly Curated podcast, I don't wanna do that for all the money in the world, let alone for like 2 cents a show But I think also with the bigger companies, I don't promote something that I don't use as an affiliate, I don't tend to talk about tech, that I don't use myself, that I don't stand behind. And so for me, like that relationship with whoever gets to touch my podcast in that kind of partnership thing is so important. I say that because every podcaster who's listening to this will be nodding furiously because we all feel like our shows are our babies, But I say it for the people who are thinking, Oh, this might be a really interesting way for me to do ads, it's not just the work that goes into a show, it's that curation. That's the magic. And you are asking me to buy that essentially. And I think it's important for people to have that level when they think about, Okay, I'm ready to run podcast ads. Jaclyn: This is something that's come up a bit and I actually, I've gotten this because you would think that us emailing podcasters and saying, I have a sponsor that wants to pay you money, would be the easiest thing in the world, And it is not, Oh, we have the sponsors. I have been shocked at how fast we've been growing with bringing more [00:20:00] sponsors on it. I, we haven't even done any promotion yet. Like I was gonna do a, like a launch and we haven't even gotten there yet cuz we've been so busy with our clients. So the demand is there. Reaching out to the podcasters. I've been really working my network but also having to do cold pitching and reach out and I, so it's been interesting, these conversations. I wanna bring this up because if podcasters are listening, the biggest thing that I hear people say is, Well, I use my podcast to promote my own offers, so I can't work with sponsors. And it is a very strongly held belief of that. It. Either or situation that I can either use my podcast to fill my own offers or I can have sponsors. It feels very like an either or situation to people. Now, some of these people, Are actually friends and clients of mine. So I got to have a conversation with them , and, and since they are now, they're now being sponsored. So I'm like, Okay. But people that don't know me, it's, it's harder to have that conversation, especially over email. Right. And I don't think that getting a sponsor is right for everyone. And certainly the timing has to be right and the alignment has to be right. I really respect that as a podcaster myself. However, I am all about embracing. and Right. We can ing the, and yes, we can have your podcast be bringing in leads and clients for your offers, and you can have sponsors that are paying you to, to share what they're doing to, right. It doesn't have to be either or. It's easy to get into. I think there's a lot of reasons why people think this, but there's maybe a little bit of scarcity. I think some people are like, I'm worried that it, even though it's a totally different offer, that it might be competitive in some way, or I sell a course and this is a course, even though it's completely different topics, so, Some of that is the fear that that I'm hearing. And what I found is, listen, I've been promoting things as an affiliate for a number of years and also have had paid sponsors, but [00:22:00] none of my paid sponsors have been another course or program or something like that. But what I found from being an affiliate is that sometimes it's your best clients that buy, right? And it's like, Oh, this was a need and you helped me introduce me to this person. Right? But sometimes it's people in my audience and I'm like, I didn't even know you were there and not everyone. This is something that we all know but is not really talked about. Most people in your audience are never gonna buy from you. right? Diane: so depressing Jaclyn: Nobody wants to say that, but that is the truth. Like it said the other way, it's like, oh, like you're convert, like the average conversion rate on email is like 2% to, to sell to, or you know, maybe you're gonna convert 10% of your launch or you know, 20% of your webinar or something. When you look at the numbers, that means whatever they are, as good as they are, most of the people are not buying from you. And so by offering something else that isn't the same thing that you do, right, but feels a different need that you know your audience has, that's a way for you to serve your audience in a different way. And make money while doing it, while you are creating this free content. So that's my, that's my, my preaching on like, it's okay to have both. You can be running multiple ads, you can be doing episodes that lead to your offers, but the ads themselves go to. You know, go to different, you know, paid sponsors or you can even have different seasons where you're put, you know, if you have a launch coming up where you are having it all be focused on your offer, but the rest of the time you're open to having other sponsors. There's lots of ways to structure, We don't dig into the details, but just wanted to open up that mind a little bit of like, It can be, it can be both. It's okay to be both. Diane: It's interesting cuz it didn't occur to me like that wasn't like, that's not even a question I had to ask you because I think, but I think because we're such event people, I'm used to going to an event that is sponsored by so and so and so [00:24:00] and so and so and so, and still being pitched at that event. Or if I think Jaclyn: that's such a good example. Yes. Diane: I'm gonna give you another one. If I think about like a TV program that I'm watching here is sponsored by a particular car. There are ad breaks with at least two or three ads in every single ad break. and then at the end of the show, there's a comeback next week because this is what's gonna happen, right? So for me, the idea of being able to talk about my own stuff while being sponsored didn't occur to me. But I think because I'm so used to that event world, thinking of it maybe as a sponsor versus an advertiser might help a little bit. We're seeing it in virtual conferences, virtual summits, lots of them are having sponsors now, and this is just a different, They are all pitching Jaclyn: absolutely. Diane: very used to being pitched in those things, so I think it's a similar kind of connection. Jaclyn: It is. Podcasters are essentially business influencers, Right? Which probably makes most podcasters like totally cringe at the idea of, Diane: threw up a little in Jaclyn: so different than the influencer industry. But there's so much value there. And when we own that and say, Okay, but we can still have this, we can still have our businesses, but also understanding and owning that influence that we do have, we're able to unlock. I mean, sure there is work involved with running ads, but a lot of it you're doing already, right? Like you're gonna send an email already, you're gonna do a social post, you're gonna, you're definitely running your podcast anyway, right? And so it opens up another stream of revenue. To with your existing audience where you don't have to be like, Okay, how do I need to, you know, create something new or go find more people or warm up this audience for that you're able to unlock this other revenue stream that's ar like, you're ready, set for. Diane: Awesome. Okay, so like as a podcaster, I feel like. . We have ticked [00:26:00] every box of every question the podcasters could have. What about the people who are listening, thinking, Is this the new Facebook ads? How do I make sure that the podcaster aligns with me? What's a multi-platform deal? Because a lot of us are very used to giving our money to the machine and hoping that the machine puts our ad in front of places. Right. This is, this is, to me, sounds more controlled in that I can go and listen specifically to my ad and the content that it's playing with versus, I don't know whose Instagram feed my ad popped up in, for example. Jaclyn: You know, and I'm glad that you brought it up like that because sometimes I think there's less control, right? Because there's so much control of, like I want, I only want people that are this age, that chop at Nordstroms that have like clicked on this link in the last. So much control with ads, but it's also impersonal. Right? And with Facebook ads, listen, they're working for some people right now and some people they're not working for. I am not a Facebook ads expert. I think I've spent myself maybe $2,000 on ads in the last seven years. So not, not the person to, to, to critique even Facebook ads. But I will say when I started this, I will not take credit for it because it was not my idea. I did not realize that this would be something that would be interesting to people in our industry with courses or agencies. It didn't dawn on me, I was thinking. Well these are the brands that I've worked with before. Let's go reach out to them. Or here's a, you know, let's follow that model of, Okay, subscription box companies tend to advertise on podcasts. Let's go find subscription box companies. That's what I was thinking we were going to be doing. , it was friends of mine, peers and clients that were like, Well, could I advertise that? It was like, Wait, [00:28:00] you would, you would wanna do this? That opened up my mind to it because they were like, Listen, We spend, and some of them spend a lot of money on Facebook ads every year, and they're not getting that ROI that they used to. And what is being talked about right now is partnerships and is where, where can you find referral partners and affiliates and sure, that's great, but not everyone has those. Relationships. So with what we're doing at Go to Gal Media we're doing advertising and sponsorships, but when it comes down to it, we're connecting. Sponsors with podcasters, people with people where there's synergy, where there's alignment, and this is a way to tap into that without, even if you have a big network, there's always people that you don't know. And if you don't have that big network, this can be a way to. Start a relationship, right? It's okay, we're gonna sponsor you. That opens a door and, and now you see which podcasts are converting, which ones are not. Typically what we do with sponsors is we start off with shorter term campaigns, four weeks or eight weeks, and then we look at the data. And we say, Okay, which podcast makes sense to go into longer term sponsorships with which types of podcasts converted the best? That'll impact what we do for another round? And, and then, okay, does it make sense with all of them to do some type of affiliate relationship? Perhaps. So there's lots of different options there, but we're able to get quick data and then use that to, to scale it. So we're still working with data is just very different than how you would with Facebook ads. And so this is a way to really scale partnerships, Diane: is Jaclyn: which is not what you would think, but that's how I think about it. Cuz I'm, I'm a people person, That's how I think about things. Diane: With the data. Is that coming from an affiliate link style tracking? Or are you just focused on, Well we know we went into this particular podcast and they released on a Thursday? As the person on the other side of the equation, like, how do you know that my podcasted [00:30:00] really terribly and go to gold? And amazingly, if you're sponsoring both of us at the same time, Jaclyn: So we have unique codes. They're not affiliate links necessarily, although some sponsors are open to that off the gate. But we have unique codes for all of the podcasters and we use UTM links. So we're able to track and, and get as much data as possible. And then we look at the whole picture too. So we have our podcasters reporting. Analytics on their end, and then we also have the data that we're getting from the sponsors themselves on their back end. Diane: So who is this right for from ai? Want to do ads perspective. We've talked a lot about, is it good for my podcast? How do you know that? Like you've got the right kind of business, the right size of business, the right budget, all the questions to be the person on the other side of the partnership. Jaclyn: Okay, so this is a qualifier to work with our agency, but I think this is just a qualifier that you should self qualify with. I feel like this about all types of paid advertising is that you need a proven offer if you're putting money to advertise something that you don't know if it converts, you don't know if the issue is the ad, if it's the funnel, if it's the offer. If it's the audience, there's too many variables there, so you're not able to do anything with that data because there's too many variables. So that is first order of business. Don't do this with something brand new. You wanna know that what you're selling actually converts then. I look for two things, so this is, this is more my own strategy, but I think it's a good rule of thumb because what we're doing is we're working with podcasters that are niche. Even the bigger shows that we work with that are maybe getting a hundred thousand downloads in a month or more. They're still niche, like compared to the biggest shows in the industry, they still have a specific niche and most of the shows that we're working with are not that size and are even more niche, right? So that said, this isn't, [00:32:00] this isn't a, like a, let's try to get in front of as many people as possible like a Pepsi ad and try to, and like someone's gonna want it, right? We're not trying to just get in front of the biggest audience. We're trying to get in front of the right audiences. And so with that, I find that just one off low priced offers don't convert well or don't, they couldn't, may convert well, but it's hard to get the ROI because if you're like, Oh, we have a $47 product. Okay, But if it's not recurring and if it's just that one purchase, you need a lot of purchases in order to get that return back. Even to break even. And so that is hard to do and I, I don't recommend that. So I look for either a subscription model, a recurring revenue model, where it's buying into a membership and they're gonna get the recurring fee or. Higher ticket and depending on the brand and what their lifetime customer value is, sometimes that might be a, a $500 offer or something like that, but usually it's going to be. Thousands in terms of that, that high ticket. And so they may only need to sell a couple to break even on their ads and, and then everything else is going to just be profit on top of that. So that's what we look for. Diane: Awesome. So basically it's a win-win. We're giving money to the podcast and you are making a lot of money. So I know everyone listening is like, Okay, how do I jump on this bandwagon? Is there a resource? Is there a checklist? Like, how do I find out how to do this? Jaclyn: So right now we're, we're an agency that does this, right? So if you want to sponsor, you come to us and we go get you the podcast. And we handle the entire management of it. We handle the legal, we pay the podcasters. I didn't mention that, but we pay the podcasters. So we handle that. And in terms of the company doesn't need to be like, I don't have a contract for this, or I don't have, I don't wanna have to do taxes, tax paperwork for all of these podcasters [00:34:00] and. In that sense, we take over all the communication, the legal, the tax stuff, all of that for the podcasters. We have the money from the brands before the campaign starts so they know exactly when their payday is gonna be and, and we release those funds so they know they're getting paid on the sponsor end. We say, Okay, these are the deliverables and we're gonna make sure they actually follow through on them before we release the funds. So it's that protection on both sides that we're able to do. Being a podcaster myself, I gotta look out for us podcasters, but I also, there's a lot of brands that get burned by influencers, and so it's important to add that extra layer of protection for them. So that said, we're not, there's not a course on this. I don't have a template. If you go to jacqueline malone.com/sponsor, you can just put in your, your name and email and we will send you information on how to get started no matter which camp you're in there. Diane: Awesome. So everybody's gonna like run straight there. So to finish up, I always ask my guests the same two questions. First of all, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Jaclyn: So if you would've asked me this six months ago, it would've been email. So when I hired my assistant a couple years ago, I told her pretend like I'm an 85 year old woman and that I don't know how to do email because I don't wanna email anymore. I'm like, You just need to pretend that I can't even. It, like, let's just operate from that perspective that I, It's not even an option for me to do email, and that seemed like a really tall order at the time, but we worked through it and we figured out our systems and she was able to completely take over my inbox where I did not email at all anymore. Now with our new agency, it kind of blew that up a bit because it's new processes. I really wanna be close to the action, and, and a lot of it is, is me and [00:36:00] my relationships. And so I, I am back, I am back in email, so I don't have that boundary anymore. Oh. But it's, I think with business, your boundaries are always evolving and, and we'll get back to that place of whatever feels good. And I think maybe that's the. I don't know the, the lesson there. I don't know what my other boundary is at this point, cuz that was such a big one for so long. Diane: Yeah, definitely. I think they have to evolve and grow with you. Otherwise they're, they're trapping you rather than freeing you in some ways. So finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you have been given as an entrepreneur? Jaclyn: I love that you asked this question because by nature we're all different. And so, Cookie cutter advice is not going to work for everybody because it's cookie cutter advice. And the biggest way this has impacted me negatively is with following other people's business models and by seeing, you know, people promoting even selling courses or having a membership model and. Kinda selling a business model as a shiny object. And it's easy to get caught up in that and see how it's working for other people or how it looks exciting and oh, and the, the time freedom and make all this money. But different models work better for some people than others. And finding that model that really aligns with your personality is, and the way that you like to work and want to work and you actually can work is. Hugely important. And I, I learned that the hard way. I've shifted my model a lot of times over the years and first it was with a membership and I'm like, Nope, that's not it. And then with a course business, building it to a point where we were selling a lot of courses and running big Facebook groups and had kinda everything, like head it all, if you will, quote unquote, of what you would look for and. Was miserable with it. Like, I can't, I'm getting totally burned out with this, so I so appreciate [00:38:00] you and, and having the conversation with me. The very probably be tough conversation with me about wealth dynamics, but that was so transformative for me of finally accepting that I am a supporter and, and going on the path to discovering what a business could look like if I really leaned into that and s and. Restructuring my business with a model that works with my strengths and leverages them instead of against them. Diane: Yeah, you're like such a people person that it's so clearly a role for you to be in that connector, like so many other people will just burn out in doing what you're doing now. Jaclyn: Yeah. Diane: you make it sound really easy. Like, oh, I just cold emailed a few people and then I like connected people and I just went, Here's the money. And everybody on the introvert side is like, this sounds like a lot of people Jaclyn: It's a lot. Oh. Diane: I'm glad. that you found the one that works for you. So this has been magical. Where can the people find you on the socials? Cuz they're gonna want to say hi. They're gonna wanna ask you questions, tell you their like sponsorship offers for the like two and a half cents for a thousand download show. Jaclyn: Tell me how your horror, all your horror stories. I'm here for 'em. Oh, so on Instagram I have two accounts, but the best one is go to Gal. It's go.two.gal. And of course we have new episodes of the Go to Gal podcast every week as well. But IG is probably the best place to hit me up in the dms. Diane: Awesome, and you can go listen to my episode on Go to go and hear Jacqueline being incredibly challenging to the idea of her profile. thank you so much. This has been a total treat, Jaclyn: Oh for me too. Thank you so much for having me.