Kymberlee Jay

How To Make More Defiant Moves In Business with Kymberlee Jay


TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Diane: Hey, Hey, this week's guest is Kimberly J a high performance business coach who has been defying expectations, her whole career. I wanted to find out how we can all make more of those defiant moves in our businesses so that we can book more clients, charge higher fees and build a remarkable reputation, our own way in our industry. Hey Kim, welcome to the show. Kymberlee: Hey Diane. Thank you so much for having me. Diane: So I definitely want to start with a little bit about your journey, because I think you have done everything. You've been a dancer and Nike athlete. You had a TV show, you're a successful entrepreneur. And I think your story will inspire so many people because it's one that I just adore. Kymberlee: Aw. Thank you. I mean, it's so funny hearing you say it back. Cause I think this is kind of just some of the stuff that I did versus you, you know, sprinkling, glitter all over it and saying it done this, and you've done that. And it's awesome. And it's me going, most of that stuff was really the pain in the ass, but actually of course, it's made me exactly who I am today. And I'm grateful for all of the experiences I've had. So yeah, I started out. In dance again, the to the disappointment of my parents, because I was considered an academic. So I wasn't meant to be an actor. Supposedly I was meant to be a forensic pathologist. That was the career goal initially. So yeah, I was, you know, before it became sexy on CSI to chop up dead bodies. That was my jam. I was what I wanted to do. Yeah, that's what I wanted to be able to do. I wanted to be able to determine cause of death not just fingerprints and gunshots and things like that. I wanted to get in there and really understand it. And it excited me. And interestingly, I had this, I sort of made this career decision. I think I was 10. When I decided that's what I wanted to do as a job. So rather strange for 10 year old, I think, but I've always been rather strange. And so academically I was on track to be able to do this. And then ultimately I found Dan. Now, initially when I started dancing, it was never a career option. Cause I wasn't particularly good at it. I struggled a lot with the coordination. I struggled a lot with just understanding this idea came from, you know, this very kind of academic logical mindset and it wasn't creative and it wasn't free flowing. Thinking at all. So for me to be able to understand dance was really difficult, but what I did know was I really enjoyed hanging out with friends in the local youth center where the dance studio was. And eventually as with most things, if you continue doing it repetitively over and over again, it's starts to set in. And so. It did it got to a point where I was, I think it was 15, you know, I started dancing at 11. I was 15 when finally things started to click into place and I thought, you know, it'd be really cool if I could do this as a job, this would be insane. Of course this was not an option at that time. My parents were just like, absolutely not a snowball's chance in hell. Will you give up? You know, the career path that you've already set your, you know, your sights on for dance. What, what even is that, you know, how do people even make money from that? So this was always bubbling in the back of my mind. And even though I continued right into university studying biomedical science at degree level, I still knew that I wanted to dance. And so it just got to a point, I was a little way into my third year of a biomedical science degree when I said, you know what, I'm just going to give this dance thing. Yeah. And my parents are gonna kill me. And, but if I'm, if I don't do it now, I never will, but let's just give it a shot because if I fail at it, I can come back to the academics, you know, but I know that age is something that's, you know, considered important in terms of having a dance career. You need to be young enough to be able to handle it. So I left university when out bright eyed and bushy tailed into the world of professional dance and hit a brick wall, a number of brick walls. In fact And it just, you know, it wasn't the glitzy glamorous world that I always thought it might be. And it wasn't what I saw on television and in the movies, it was just, it was hard. It hurt, you know, it just, everything about it was painful, physically, emotionally, mentally it hurt. And it got to a point where I thought I'm going to give this a certain amount of time. Then I know I'll go back to academics if it doesn't work. But during this time I thought I might as well have some fun with it because, you know, if I'm not really that serious about it and I've got other options and I can kind of do what I want with it. So I would turn up to auditions. And, you know, immediately be told, no you not. If you CA you can't even, we don't want to see you dance, namely, because of the way that I looked you know, I was a plus sized dancer in an industry that completely frowned upon anything being above a size zero Because of the way that I train. So local youth and community dance, I didn't come from a beautiful, formal, formal dance background. I didn't have any classical or contemporary dance training. It was just me and it was hip hop and it was, that's what I loved. And the last thing that I was actually doing hip hop, but as a woman, So there's always this, you know, idea that if you're in hip hop such a male dominated genre, that if you were female, you were seen as somebody who just looked pretty, you know, on the side, you didn't have necessarily a any sort of substance within that genre. So I faced these, these sort of hurdles and tight, and it just got to a point where it became a long running joke for me, I'd turn up to an audition as you're meant to you keep going back, hoping one day someone will say yes, but I knew they'd say no damn, you know, whatever. And then it meant that I could experiment a bit with who I was. What I did, how I did it, how belligerent I could be within these auditions know full well, they're going to say no. So I'm going to cause a bit of a ruckus. I am going to make sure they notice me by saying something, doing something, being somebody that stands out from what they're asking for. And this became a, you know, a theme, a running theme for me, just, I want, I needed to be. I needed to go against the grain of the entertainment industry, just to be noticed. I knew I didn't stand a chance of having the career in it, but I wanted to make a mark. Anyway. I wanted to make some kind of income. And that's when, you know, sort of years into my auditioning fails. I stumbled upon this, this audition for, for Nike. And originally it was actually a friend of mine that said, I'm going to this audition to dah, dah, dah. And I said, well, I'm not going a, it starts at 9:00 AM in central London. I'm not getting up to go to this audition. Bonkers. She's like, no, no, no, no. I really want to go. And I really want someone to come and do it with me. And I just love for you, even if you don't do it, can you just hang out with me? I know it's going to be huge. It's a whole thing. I'm really nervous. Please come along. I was like, all right, sure. So I turned up in central London. This audition is absolutely here. But anyway, that's, you know, this is a whole kind of other angle and another story, but the short version of it is I basically turned up to this audition, looked at the brief, or was, you know, told about what they wanted, decided I didn't want to do that. And I was going to do my own version of it and ultimately booked the job. And this ended up being a massive. Advertising campaign for Nike across the AMEA region. And when I asked them years later, why on earth did you hire me? I was everything against what you said, you stood for that time. And they said, that's exactly why we hired you. It's because you dared to stand up to what we thought was right. And show us a different way. You dared to say, Hey, actually I have an opinion here. I can see a different vision here. Ah, this is how I, who I am and how I embody this idea of women in sport. And people need to sit up and take notice. And they said to me, we loved that. We loved the fact that you did that, and nobody else did to do that. We couldn't ignore you. There was no way we couldn't, you know, sign you at the time. And that did it led on to me becoming signed to Nike as an athlete, which again was really unusual because my sport was danced. So, you know, there's another really random story of me trying to get into Russia, to be able to do a Nike event there and being questioned by the Russian embassy of what the dance is, not a sport. This is ridiculous. You're a fake, possibly a spy. What on earth is happening here? I was terrified being interviewed, you know, by these Russians who were like, ah, this is, this is ridiculous. This doesn't happen. This isn't real. There's no such thing as a dancer. You know, we have issue with this. And the world was like that, you know, it was really unusual for an organization, a huge machine, like Nike to say, actually, no, you know, it is a sport, we're still figuring it out, but we're going to sign you. And they did. So they signed me. I worked with them for almost eight years and just got to live this dream life. Of being a dancer, but doing so as myself. So I didn't actually have to fall into their mold or in the industry mold of what a dancer should be or a choreography should be, or should look like or should perform like, or sound like or say I could be entirely myself. And the more they gave me license to do that, the more I pushed the boundaries, the bigger and opinion I had, the more of my ideas I contributed. And it, all it did was just lead to more and more success for me. So I realized that I am in my street. Position. When I am defiant. When I argue back, when I ask questions, when I don't accept the status quo, that's when all of my success has happened. And interestingly, you know, it's gone on into business as well because when I stopped being a performer, I started doing consultancy for Nike and it was the same thing. I'd sit in boardrooms with, you know, presidents, vice presidents, chief of this, that, and the other, all these C-suite executives. And I'd say, wow. Why are we doing this? Why is this you know, why is this campaign even a thing? And a lot of them thought, how dare she question us? But the important people that have went, this is important that she is questioning us. And that was my whole thing as a consultant, working with large companies. And I got to work with quite a few, you know, incredible organizations because I guess my USP in a sense was I'm going to question. Your decisions. I'm going to question your ideas. I'm going to hold you accountable. I want to understand, you know, these thought processes are not just going to be a yes man or a yes girl, this needs substance. And if you've got me involved yeah. We're going to need to talk about it. And, you know, businesses respond to that really, really well. And ultimately I've built a career on being the one that I'll use back, which is the complete opposite of what society tells us to. Do. You know what everybody tells us to do what we're raised to do, you know, this idea that we're supposed to have a very linear. Journey in our lives. We get an education, we get a good job. We get married. We do that. We have children. We live that we work until we retire and then we retire and then we sit in a chair and then we read books and then we die, you know, and immediately. I'm up against that, you know, I, every time I'm getting people's backs up and again, it was never because I wanted to be antagonistic. And even now it's not because I want to be antagonistic, but I realized that we can have great success when we start to question the way things are done. And we start to ask people, you know, especially those in leadership roles to do better. And if they aren't. As good a leader as they believe they are. They'll, they'll be open to the conversation. They'll have the, the dialogue will be, we'll be there. And immediately you start to see who can lead and who can't by those who engage in a conversation with me and those who won't. And that was always really interesting for me. I knew if I could work with somebody, if I could immediately have that conversation, you know, at the time at Nike, when I'd been there for a very short time, I accidentally met the CEO and didn't know. And so I'm having this conversation doing me as I do. You know, fortunately, I kind of found out who he was by my handler at Nike jumping up and down behind him, waving, going no mouth. What's that small ball. I was like, shit. I was about to ask him, you know, what do you do here? I have no idea. You just looked kind of regular guy amongst all the other ones. Key teams and employees at this massive Nike conference and it turned into, cause we were both eating sandwiches, turned into what's in your sandwich. I mean, it was just like, Well, it's chicken. And it's good. Yeah. You know, and at the end of our conversation, you know, I think he thought that I had no idea who he was. And he really responded to that. And he said to me, I love that we were able to have this conversation. I don't get to have conversations like this very often here, where I work. So this was delightful. Keep having these conversations. And you know, it's just. To just be this person, like I say, you know, most of my joy, everything that I've achieved, that I'm proud of has come from me, putting a hand up and saying why, why are we doing it that way? And what's driving this and how exactly is this going to work and who exactly is going to take the lead here and, you know, asking these questions, which often people don't get to be asked. So essentially that's my emo for life. Now I'm going to ask a lot of questions, awkward ones included because. As, as you know, society to do better across the board, that's the short answer. Diane: I think it's really interesting because when you talk about that, like that linear life, like I very much did really well at school. Went to university, got my professional job, got a job in banking debt. Did I did I did. I did all the career path and then got to a point where I went. Cool. Wow. I just really hate this. And so when I stepped out of that and was like, I mean, people know my story, I was in finance and banking and the furthest I could see was maybe I'd go into finance and a tech company. Like that was the limit of my vision at that point. And what happened when I came into the online space is because you've been in that linear progression. You are automatically looking for that person to tell you that exact next step you need to take in order to make that same linear progression in your business. And what happens is you take all those next steps and You sit in a business that you hate and suddenly like you have to have that moment where like the blinders come off and you're like, oh, I have to figure out a different way to do this. And no one else is going to be able to figure that out for me. but there's this whole industry kind of crushing you into, these are the models at work and you must do it this way. So how do we get that defiance spirit that allows us to look at this huge successful bro marketer or guru coach and say, actually, I don't want to do it your way. Kymberlee: You know, it's, it's such a difficult space to be in being defined. It's never going to be easy because even though, you know, as well as society telling us, we need to lead this linear life, it's, you know, biochemically, we are structured. To lead this linear life. We are structured to move towards what is safe and move away from what might be considered the unknown, which might be dangerous for us. You know? So there is like this, a wall to climb with people around us saying, you've got to do it this way. This is the only way it's going to work. This is how I've done it. And this has worked for me. And you know, when you fall into that thinking, it must be safe cause they done it. That's the way they've done it. And I want to feel safe because the moment I step out. You know, safety, I am exposed and it could hurt me. And that's the hardest thing is this idea that, you know, in life, the truth is it doesn't matter who you are and how successful you are considered. Now you are going to fail in the sense of the word more than you're going to succeed. And the power is in the getting it wrong. That's where we can find. You know, our, our substance, that's where we find motivation. If you don't try, because you're scared of. Other people might say, or other people think or going against what you are told is the way that this must be done. You are simply asking to stay in mobile and passive, you know, you can't grow, you can't move forward. You can't succeed without taking a step outside of the comfort zone. And I understand that this isn't something that's spoken about, spoken about much. You talk about these bro marketers, and it always makes me laugh when you do. Because you see it, it floods our timelines on social media. I did it this way. I'll give you the exact steps as to how I did it. I'll tell you, you know, step by step letter by letter, how you can succeed at exactly the same way it can. Work. It physically cannot work. It does not work that way. Life doesn't work that way and ultimately the way that they've done it, and if they have had the success that they've had, it's because that they've gone through a number of failures beforehand, and it's important for you to go through the same. Process. So rather than seeing this idea of getting it wrong, being exposed, being out there so people can potentially see who we really are versus who we pretend to be on social media. We need to embrace this idea in order for us to be able to win. You know, it's this, it's this idea that, you know, it's not. The process is the, when you know, you can't nothing ever, ever finishes in a sense, you've got this idea that we can have a goal and we can hit it. And then, you know, life is rosy and we've made six, seven figures, eight figures in our business. And, and this is where it is, you know, this isn't how it works. You need to be able to understand that the moment you. Create a goal or an idea or a concept for yourself. And you think I'm going to achieve that, the moment you get there, you're going to fail forward, ideally. And then automatically you're going to raise the bar. So in theory, you can never win. So if you're going to win in any sense of the word, you're going to need to find that win in the process. And part of that process is having to lose. And in order to lose, we have to expose ourselves to the world. I can probably count on one hand the number of entrepreneurs I know who were willing to do that. And because of that are doing really well. And I can, you know, I can identify a number of entrepreneurs who aren't doing quite so well where social media would have you think otherwise, Because they feel like they need to stay within this linear lifestyle. And part of the reason why it was important for me to become a coach, I'm really encouraged this idea of being able to color outside the lines and just step outside the box. With, because I wanted to show people another way I wanted to say yes, there have been thousands of books written about it. You can probably get an online course from anywhere. You can Google it and probably find a way somebody else has done it, but it's not your way. And it's not going to prepare you for the success that you're going to have. Ideally, when you get there. So you are going to need to find a way in to do that. You're going to need to be unafraid to step up. Into this big wide world. And it's this idea that if, well, if we step out and we're exposed, I mean, essentially we're going to die and it's like, you're not, you're not, you know, yes, it might not work. And yes, people might look and go, well, she tried that or he tried that and it didn't work, but I mean, you know, why does that matter so much to you? It was really interesting. Cause I read something once or can't remember where I saw it, where it was something that said, you know, the opinions of people. Oh, the opinions that matter to me are those of people who I pay or who pay me beyond that. Doesn't matter and you know, it's completely right. And even then there's some wiggle room in terms of, you know, how we view other people's opinions. And I know that I'm not going to be able to convince the entire world and you know, that we should be doing things out of the box possible that I might, might cause anarchy. If everybody decides that they're going to do things their own way. I understand that we are a society of structure. I know that. But in entrepreneurship, yeah. In, in business, in, in any, in creativity, you have to be able to find your own substance and communicate that and be unafraid to communicate that in order to be heard, to be seen and to move forward. You know, one of the reasons why, you know, I ran a business for a while creating animated video content for corporate companies. One of the reasons why I built that business, I built it really, really quickly and had what was considered great success because financially it did really, really well. Hated that business. And I hated it because I built it based on what other people had said to do. And it worked sure it worked, but me running it, it wasn't me. And the way I did things, it just, you know, it didn't work operationally. It was difficult because every morning when I woke up, I went against who I was and how. Worked to be able to keep this business going. And eventually it just drained the life out of me. And I vowed, I will never build a business like that again. And other people looked at me and they said, well, why enough would you, you know, tank a business like that? Why would you complain about having a profitable business, doing something where you're the CEO and you get to manage your own time and you get, and it's, you know, once you get there, it's that same thing. The bar raises again, you realize this. This isn't the definition of success and finance is a great metric to measure, but it definitely isn't the definition of success. Success is when you can wake up every morning, open your eyes, look around and think, I love my surroundings. I love this world I'm in. And it's everything that. Versus what other people's expectations, what everybody expects to be, you know, me to be doing what the world accepts as success. You know, yes, big house, fast car money in the bank, you know, all of these things you can get to that position and then go. This is rubbish. Actually, this is why am I here? And, you know, I think in order to do that, you know, there is, there's a series of just failures that need to happen. These are kind of eyeopening movements. So I want people to experience them. More quickly so they can find themselves so they can then determine who they need to be in their business to build a business that's going to work for them versus taking years to do it other people's way, realize that this isn't the way it was meant to be done. And finally come around to it. You're going to come around to the same conclusion in the end. I promise you, Diane: It's so interesting. Cause I had a conversation this week where I was talking to someone about just trying something and they were really reticent to do it. And I said, well, what is the worst thing that could happen here? And they're like, what if nobody buys it? And I looked at them and I went, how will anyone know. And I think we have this thing where we are, we are so convinced that we are so interesting that the world is monitoring our every breath and feeling. And I said to, we have all launched to zero, multiple times. You put something out nobody's interested and you're just not seeing that on Instagram, because it's just not that interesting to talk about. That's the whole story in one line. And I think for that moment, it was super freeing for her to think, well, actually I can do this and no one will ever know if I failed at it, except me. And so I think we've got into this mindset of everybody is monitoring me and that's making us feel even more risk averse. So how do we do that first baby step to prove to ourselves that if we do this, we won't die. Even if we fail so that we can get bigger and more defiant as we go. Kymberlee: Yeah, I think it's, I mean, there's work to do. Of course. There's lots of internal work to do. I think a lot of it comes from making the decision to accept to the one of two things are going to happen. Either this is going to work or you are going to learn, both of them are wins. So recognizing that actually there is no such thing as failure, in a sense in the traditional sense of the word, either it works or we learn from it both have really, really powerful wins. I think we go into this idea that the world wants to see the win. And what I've learned is as a, especially as a coach is my most powerful. And you know, my commodity, I guess, is the fact that I've got lots of learnings lots of mistakes I've made that I can talk about now. And the world now recognizes that this is valuable for somebody like me as a coach. And it's about people understanding the value in the learning. In that process you know, not, everything's going to get you the results that you're looking for. It's great. Sometimes it's just a little bit of a learning process. You can iterate, you can move forward, but unless you step, you take that first step, unless you move, unless you do something. Nothing happens. That to me is the loss. That to me, is the fail being stagnant, being still. That's failing. You've got to keep moving. You've got to do something. We've got to make a move. We've got to step somewhere, make a decision and go then decide after that decision. Did I learn from it or was this a good decision? Did I win either way we moving forward? So it's understanding that no matter what decision you make right now, make one, make it quickly go do something you are going in the right direction. Diane: We were recently and I kind of PM masterminding situation and we were talking about something of mine. And I think the question that you asked me is so powerful. You said to me, how comfortable do you feel doing that? Because if you feel too comfortable, it's not enough. And I think for me that has really made me think like, in the time, since we had that conversation, everything that I've done, I'm like, how comfortable does this feel? Does this feel a little too easy for me to do this? Can I just push that boundary just a teeny bit? Like it doesn't have to be like, you know, I'm going to go and I dunno, start dancing on Tik TOK or anything like that. But, you know, Kymberlee: damn did Diane. Diane: Oh, no, no, no. There is, there are zero Dawn's genes in this body. No one wants to see that myself included. But I do think it's an interesting question for people to think about in that. How do you start to develop that defiant mindset can I just push the boundary just a little bit each time? Kymberlee: Exactly and you can, and it only has to be a little bit, but it has to be something. It has to be something you cannot stand don't stand still. That's you know, that's just the worst thing you can do for yourself. Do something small, make a step, see how it feels. You know, and gradually it's going to get to a point where, you know, you are making defiant moves, you know, like me, where I'm talking to CEOs and presidents of huge, you know, multinational organizations and saying, but why though, you know, asking them questions and making moves where people think that's suicidal at this level. And actually for me, it's not, you know, for me even that's comfortable. So we've just got to a point where little by little, over the past 20 years, of course it takes time to build where you can just get a little bit more comfortable in yourself and realize you can just push the goalposts a little bit further away. And that is where. The magic happens and that's what we should be aiming for. Yes. Keep your eyes on the prize, but recognize that these tiny little steps that you're making towards it are valuable and you are gaining from them right now in this very moment in your pajamas, listening to this podcast, you are gaining now, you know, stand up and move, do something, make a decision and go and see what happens. Diane: And had us back on Instagram in the DMS. Tell us what that move was. Cause we'll genuinely want to know. So Kim, this has been amazing. I'm so inspired, but I always like to finish with a couple of the same questions for all of my guests. The first is what is the number one lifestyle boundary you have for your business? Kymberlee: Number one lifestyle boundary. And this, I guess, interestingly, this has changed. Over the years. But so recognize that in order for me to do good business, I need to be in the right frame of mind at the time. And I also recognize that I'm here. And I was talking about this with one of my coaching clients the other day, who is getting ready to launch something. And she just said to me, I'm overcome with emotion. I'm overwhelmed. I can't describe it. I'm ready for this, but something's going on in my head where there's a massive clash and I can't seem to control what that is. I can't seem to get myself together. And one of the things that I'll always do before, I know that I have, you know, I'm maybe stepping out into. Something unknown. That's a big, maybe a bigger leap than usual especially with in business or otherwise. I always make sure that I pad that with what I call my right. So these are days where I not responded to emails. I'm not talking to you on the phone. I'm not seeing anybody. Of course, I have my family. I'm a mom and I'm a wife and sure. But other than that, nobody else gets in the bubble. Nobody because I need this time. And I've learned to factor that in whether I believe I need it. Because that's the difficult part is that thing where, you know, when we're first starting out, we think, oh yeah, we need a couple of days to get used to this. And then as you get used to it, you think, no, I can just do this on the fly. It's fine. It's going to be fine. That, you know, it can be really destructive. So in terms of my lifestyle, I make sure that, you know, I blocked my calendar and if I have to sit and stare or. I'll do that. It just means that I am firing on all cylinders. I'm ready to go. When it is go time. When it's time to press the big green button, when I have, you know, a big thing to do, whether that be a presentation or a talk or, you know, I'm launching something or. I have, you know, just something that really pulls me out of what, what I would consider comfortable. It's making sure I set the boundary of time and space. And I have to, and even though now I think, yeah, and you know, if you asked me to do a presentation this afternoon to a room full of corporates, sure. I can knock something together and I'll do it. Ideally though what I needed was this entire morning of nothing. And I need to make sure that I am disciplined enough. To shut everything down and that is everything other than what it takes to, you know, for self care. So sure. Exercise short walk. Sure. Watch Netflix read a book, listen to podcasts, listen to music, whatever it takes for you to just zone in and chill, but nothing to do with business. Industry, you know, marketing sales, whatever else it is that you shouldn't, you think you should be doing right now. I cut the whole thing off and it worries people sometimes. Cause I just go dead. So if you don't know that about me, you be like hymns, just go missing. For three days and then I'm back and I'm like, Hey, right, let's go guys. You know? But that's been really, really important for me in terms of a boundary. So it's not something that I do necessarily, you know, very specifically regularly. It's when I know I've got something coming up, that's going to change my mental or emotional state that I just take a few days before and a few days after. So just ease myself into it for doing apps. Nothing. Diane: I like that. I like that a lot. I might try that one. So this one I thing is going to be quite tough for you to answer, but what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice that you ever got? Kymberlee: Oh, Diane: Maybe we'll keep it, keep it to like business Kymberlee: Yes. Oh yeah, well, sure, sure. Worst piece of cookie cutter advice. The immediate one that comes to mind and it's one that I still see often again on timelines in social media is Facebook ads are the, be all and end all. I did try that once I thought, you know, there was something I was launching and I had to do it quickly. And the bro marketer said to me, listen, it's easy. You don't need to pay that much. You get to talk to an audience, you choose your own audience. It's this whole thing. And in my mind, I didn't know much about Facebook ads, but the way that it was kind of presented to me, I thought, oh, well, it makes sense. Okay. You know, A dumb deal. Of course you do it. And there's crickets because there's a whole mechanism behind advertising online that you need to have developed beforehand before you press the big green button and say, I'm going to put money behind these ads. It's not something you can sell immediately. And I see that a lot in my coaching clients as well, where they come to me and they say, no, no, no, I don't need to worry about the sales and marketing, but I'm just going to do Facebook ads. I'm just going to Instagram ads. It's going to be fine. Diane: Huh. Kymberlee: I'm going. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. In fact, I ban my clients from doing. Social media advertising for at least the first year to two years of their business. It's important for them to really understand the mechanics of sales and marketing before they then try and switch it on online. A lot of people don't agree with me, which as for usually. Absolutely fine. But for me, that is some of the worst advice that you can come out into the world, into the market with whatever product or service you've got and the whole thing's going to fly and you can build it and they will come because you said yes to a Facebook ad. It's ridiculous. It doesn't work. Please stop doing it. That is, you know, a massive piece of advice that I would say, Hey, this is not definitely not. Diane: Yeah, I, I definitely am on your side , of the discussion. Especially when someone is like, oh, I'm struggling to get leads organically. I think I should run Facebook ads. And I'm like, if you don't have the people who are already familiar with you converting, throwing money into Facebook ads, when you don't have an organically converting funnel, they just ask Facebook for their bank account number and Just transfer your budget. Kymberlee: Just give it to him. Diane: and then there's all the time. Like if you don't know how to monitor them and optimize them, like, if you're not a spreadsheet, numbers person, like Facebook ads is just going to feel so awful. Well, this has been fabulous. I love our conversations. I always leave feeling so inspired to go and do something. in the world. So what's the best place for people to connect with you, to carry on talking to you? Kymberlee: I would love for your listeners to check out defiant which is something that I am working on. It's a constant work in progress, but it's something where I can be able to collaborate and be able to amalgamate all of my thoughts and ideas about being more defiant and how you can integrate defiance in terms of being an entrepreneur and a business owner. Diane: Awesome. Thank you so much, Kim, for all of your great wisdom bombs today, I feel like people are going to be very defiant after listening to this. Kymberlee: Thank you, Diane

If you’re tired of the status quo in your business or industry, get ready for an instruction manual on how one person can create big change.

Kymberlee Jay walks you through how defiant moves in our businesses can lead to more clients, higher fees, and a remarkable reputation.

Key Takeaway

Going against the norm, being more you and standing out could the keys to success your way.

We talk about

  • How defiance can lead to success
  • How to know if you’re playing too small
  • How to get started pushing your own boundaries
  • Kymberlee’s lifestyle boundary for her business
  • The worst cookie-cutter advice Kymberlee’s been given on her lifestyle business

About Kymberlee

Kymberlee is a high-performance coach and Chief Operating Officer at Book Yourself Solid® Worldwide, helping top-tier coaches and consultants across the globe build profitable and dynamic businesses, which allow them to lead their own clients to extraordinary success. 

As a former professional dancer, sponsored Nike athlete, and award-winning creative agency owner, Kymberlee realised that much of her success resulted from making bold decisions, breaking down barriers and defying expectations.

Her no-nonsense focus and determination allowed her to achieve colossal goals against all the odds. Now, Kymberlee is on a mission to guide individuals, businesses, and brands to achieve knockout results by ditching the rulebook and making Defiant Moves so that none of her clients ever have to feel like they're falling short of their potential again.

Find out more about Kymberlee's mission at, or follow her social moves on Instagram and Twitter – @kymberleejay.



This page may contain affiliate links. I earn a commission or reward on all qualified purchases made when you use these links. 


The information contained above is provided for information purposes only. The contents of this podcast episode and article are not intended to amount to advice and you should not rely on any of the contents of this article or episode. Professional advice should be obtained before taking or refraining from taking any action as a result of the contents of this article. Diane Mayor disclaims all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on any of the contents of this article.