Build A Better Backend With Liz Strong

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest is my go-to for practical back-end organization tips. Let's strong is an ops and project manager for female. Online business owners has a special knack of simplifying the behind the scenes in ways that make it easy to find what you're looking for. Exactly when you need it. I'm pretty organized, but even I was drowning in my stock photo collection. And so Liz gave me a structure to make it more functional and accessible. So if she can fix that, you know, you're going to take away some practical ideas to get your notebook ready. Hey, Liz, welcome to the show. Liz: Hey, thanks for having me. Diane: Let's kick off with a bit about your business journey and how it's developed. Liz: Yeah. So I actually started as a brand and web designer about, Oh gosh, like four plus years ago. And then just over time, just seeing what my clients are asking for and just the way that my brain naturally thinks and leans towards when it comes to systems, I started to kind of like step out of the brand and web design. Game and move into being more of a virtual assistant and helping actually those clients that had just built their brand and website for, into getting all of their backend like CRM PMs, like all of those like systems and processes set up. And then just realizing that my clients, I wasn't really always functioning in a virtual assistant role. I was tending to be more as like a project manager role and then kind of like doing more business management. So over time I've just taken steps up the ladder in where my role actually is with wise. And so at the moment I'm doing project management, ops management, and it's my absolute favorite thing. Diane: Yeah. I rarely see someone as excited about. Tools systems and processes. And I say that as a process, nerd myself. So when you start working with a client, so they come to you, like it's like brand new, what are the main areas of mess that you typically see? Liz: Oh, gosh, number one thing, their inbox that is Straight up. The first thing that they tell me, Before they even hire me, like even just like in the contact form. They're like, my inbox is at like a couple thousand on reds and my heart just like, like has panic attacks because mine's almost always at zero. And so that's typically like the first thing that we dive into is creating that system for their inbox. And then any, like some of them have their own personal one on one for their like team where their clients start to talk to them at. And so we get all of that set up and then we start to look at, okay, what does your actual system for working with clients look like, how are you talking to them? How are you onboarding them? What does like the project itself look like? What does offboarding them look like? Because if you've worked with them and you absolutely loved working with them, You kind of want to send them off in a really great way so that either they come back or they send you kick ass referrals. Because if they were that awesome, chances are, their friends are just as awesome and they would be a perfect fit for your business. So you want to kind of like make sure that that process too is like rock solid. Diane: So I guess maybe the super messy and most impactful is that client facing part, because email is technically client facing and then how you're dealing with your client is client facing Liz: Yeah. There's yeah, so there's a lot of that, like client facing stuff that we focus on, but then as we're looking at all of the client facing stuff, We start to see the deeper root of it is internal stuff and how they don't have any, like they may know in their head, what everything looks like and how it all should go. But internally in all of those systems, those aren't actually set up. They've never actually gotten any of those systems set up. They just kind of like have them piecemealed in places. They have them in notes, in different places. There's not actually anything legitimately set up. And so every time it's a slightly different process knowing though that they could have sent this email, but couldn't find it, or they should have sent this form at this time, but didn't actually have that set up. And so it just kind of like tumbles into that internal, external Mess. And so that's a, once we actually look at like the surface level of what their client process looks like, what that whole part looks like. We kind of start to see the deeper issues of, Oh, you just don't have any of that stuff really set up to be able to have those really nice, solid processes that your clients are seeing. Diane: that makes total sense. The thing I hear from people and you probably hear it all when you asked them about the behind the scenes, the back office, the backend, it's normally a look of a terror. And then be even more terror that you're going to make them do something about it. So where can they start? And I want us to think about if they have a team. And if there was solo preneur, Liz: yeah, so typically I've really start way at the beginning. Like honestly, I started the contact form and at that like discovery call, because that really is the foundation for the knowledge that you need. To know about their project as a whole, because if it's not a great contact form, you don't have a great little like, Hey, here's what I need to know about your project. Book, a call. And potentially like for me, when they book a call with me, I actually have them fill out a second form. That gives more information because I don't want to hop on that call and not know what's coming and be like, Totally just blown over by the mass of whatever they actually need. And so for me, it's been like start way back at that, like just that tiny little system, because most people have like, what's your name? What's your email. Give me a message. And it's that for me is not detailed enough, but you also don't want it so detailed that it like. Terrifies them. So it's like it, for me, it was like that process. And especially working with my clients is finding that process between, or that balance between too much information and not enough information, because if they fill out the contact form and you're like, yeah, based on that, that's new. I don't want to work with you. Then they just go away and they never have to do anything. And they are gone. If they do seem like a good fit, then they have a slightly deeper, questionnaire. It's really only like three or four questions max, for me on that. And with that, it's just diving a little bit deeper into those main pain points that they already asked me, or they brought up in the contact form. And so from that, then I can be prepared and see what actually is the route. Like we were saying before is they just don't have those internal systems. They may know on the top level, like the processes and like off the top of their head, what happens. But deep down, they really don't have the foundational system set up for them. I tend to start there and then I go into where are they actually. Holding all of these people, because that, for me, whether you are working on your own or whether you have a team, you need to be able to keep track of all those leads and where everyone is in that process. And so for me, it's just starting at the very beginning of the entire thing with clients, and then just moving through step by step from the beginning to the end, because if you don't then your whole foundation is totally off because I find that if. The contact form is not good. The whole project is going to be off because you don't know all the information upfront. If you don't have a CRM. So something like HoneyBook or dub, Sato, top 17 hats, that stuff, then there's going to be a lot of disconnect and you're not going to be able to store everything and have it all in one place. Because that for me is a lot more, it's a lot easier to have, especially if you do have a team and even if you don't, it just makes your brain work less trying to figure out, okay. I sent the contract in this program. I sent an invoice in this program. I sent a questionnaire in this program. I have the scheduling in this program. And you're trying to keep track of all four of those places. When realistically, most of the programs out there can put that into one place and you can just easily, have a little workflow that just keeps them all going through all of that, rather than having to have a spreadsheet that keeps track of where everything is and then hope that you. Are have enough of like, did I actually send this or did I not having reminders? Like all those little like details, but for me, it's really starts at the very, very beginning of the whole thing. And that just builds on everything which creates that really solid foundation. Diane: I think that contact form can also be, it can be your bouncer, helping you keep non-ideal clients out, but also it can make potential clients feel really safe. In your hands. Liz: absolutely. Diane: I think that CRM is where you start to move people towards spending money And I always say, that's what you spend like the first half hour of your day is in that pipeline now. Yes. It's better to have it all in one system, but if you do only have it in a spreadsheet and you are ticking it off, as you do it, I'm going to say like more power. That's still better than nothing. Liz: Absolutely. When I started my business, I didn't have a CRM. I didn't have, I had a spreadsheet and I used, I actually tracked everything in a sauna. Because it was really easy. And I still do that with my clients. Actually, we have a sauna or we have dos out and we have HoneyBook depending on what they want to use. And we actually keep track of leads and project statuses in a sauna because it's got the, you can have the commenting. So if you have a team, everyone is in one place. They can be commenting at attaching things, adding due dates to task. Like you can have it all in there. And as long as free. And it's just one for me. It's just like that one little step up from a spreadsheet because you can see and how it has a little bit more features in there. But when I started as using spreadsheets, because I didn't know about any of those programs, but also I didn't have the money for it. I didn't understand them because when you look at them, Oh, absolutely. They're overwhelming and intimidating. Not going to lie, but Just starting somewhere with something. Keeping track of that. That for me is the core, because if you're keeping track of it, Honestly, if you're on your own, yes, sure. Paper can work really great. I know several people who have really great paper systems or like whiteboard systems for keeping track of all that. But once you start having a team, it has to go digital. Otherwise everyone's trying to figure out where things are and no one's on the same page and you have to keep managing that instead of actually doing what your clients hired you to do. And you don't want to have to keep doing that. You want to be able to be like, Hey. Just go to this one place and you'll be able to see where the status of everything is, and that's where it is. You can comment, you can have conversations, whatnot. But for me, even if it's just honestly using something like a sauna or Trello, like that works, Diane: go on. Say the one, you know, I love that you are not one overbuy. Go on. Liz: Click up. Diane: Yes. Liz: I tried it and I think it's brilliant. I tried to get some of my clients over it, but for them it they've been using a sauna for so long that it's hard to get them to see click up and all of the possibilities with it. And so, I use it for a while and then, but because all my clients were in a thought I'm like, all right, well, Instead of me having to go to like seven different platforms. I'm just going to stick with the sign and just toggle between them all. But click up is pretty awesome because it does have more features and flexibility and capability than like a sauna or Trello. Like as much as I hate to admit it, going to say Diane: I use them for different things. I like Trello when I'm doing visual, like moving stuff along. And I like pickup when I'm like following like a checklist or something like that. Liz: Yeah. And it's, for me, it's also like the way your brain thinks. If it doesn't work for you it's, I don't care if it works for me because I can personally be flexible with anything. But if it doesn't work for you. You're never going to use it. And so that's like when we're trying to figure out systems, I'm like, Hey, how do you think, are you a list person? Are you, you need to see it more visually. Do you want to see all of these different features? What kind of stuff do you actually want in a program? And then go from there. Don't start with what everyone's recommending, because I could go on a sauna or HoneyBook the tools I use all day long, but if it's not the way you think. Don't do it because you're going to waste time. You're going to waste money. You're going to rice energy and you're going to go with something else anyways, or you're going to go back to whatever you were doing originally. Yes. Go check it out. But see if it works for you, do a test run. Don't add all your stuff in there. Do like a test project or something. See if it works the way you think, if it does yay, now you can do it, but don't just do it because I'm influencer or someone else was like, you have to use this because it's the one to use. No, you need it to work for you. Otherwise you're never going to use it. Diane: so true. So you mentioned needing to move to digital when you start to bring on a team. And one of my pet peeves in the online business is seeing people. Hire a VA or hire an OBM as some kind of check Mark on a successful business checklist. And then they're not organized, they're not ready for it. And then somehow thinking that, the VA is going to come in and with almost no guidance from you somehow make your life a million times easier and then firing them when they don't. So when someone is coming to you and let's say maybe it was earlier on, cause I'm sure you're much better at screening for it now, but what does that feel like on the other side, when you have someone who's just not ready for your level of support, but insistent on hiring. Liz: Yeah. I still deal with it and have been able to mitigate some of that. But I still deal with that even now, but like through the whole time, it's, it's overwhelming. It's stressful. It makes you want to quit, honestly, because you don't, it feels like you're not ready. And it's like, I know that I'm capable of doing what it is you've hired me for, but because X, Y, and Z aren't set up. I'm not able to actually do my job properly because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to do it. I don't know where to do it oftentimes in the specific way that they want it done, because there's so many ways you can do something, whatever the task is or whatever the project is. But when clients are hiring, they want it done. I would say like 80, 90% of the time in a very specific way. And so if you don't, if you aren't being told like how they want it done, whether it's like, Hey, I need you to like just showing us like an Allume video in a Google doc or wherever you want to keep those kinds of like tasks and details and lists and stuff. If we don't know where that is, if we can't see how you do it specifically, especially if you are, have a very like niche or specific way of doing something. We're not going to be able to read your mind and that's essentially what clients tend to do if they aren't prepared. And sometimes yeah, you can kind of like fake it for a while. You can have those like calls and they're like, Hey, can you show me how to do this? But it's not necessarily the VA's job to create those SLPs or standard operating procedures for that. That's really something that the client actually needs to do upfront. Because it's the way they want it done. If you're have been working with them for a while and you've started a new process, then yes, the VA needs to do it because they're the ones who are doing it and they understand that system or that process the best. But when you're first starting out, they're never going to be able to do any kind of SOP or recording for any of that at the level that it needs to be done at, because they've never done it before. And even if they've done it once. There's a chance that they did it wrong, that they miss something that they forgot something that the client forgot to tell them something. And then they just wasted all that time, recording something when it's not the right way. And so it's better to have someone who actually started it to do it. And that's, it's a really stressful and just makes you feel like you're behind on stuff. And then you're rushing to catch up. And then you're maybe breaking some of your own personal, boundaries on time. Like you're working later than you wanted to, or maybe if you like are a VA and you're time-tracking, you may feel really bad and stop time tracking. So you can understand the process when really you are still working and should be tracking. But also it's like that kind of like balance of do I need to track my time for this because you don't have any SLPs for this. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm taking five times longer. But then when you see that time tracked, you're going to go, why did you, why is that packaged already done when you haven't even actually done anything? You're just learning. Well, because there are no like systems there's no, SOP is, there's nothing telling me how to do what you've hired me to do. There. And so it just, it just snowballs into that stress factor and then there's attention. And then there's you know what? I'm just, we're not a good fit when it's really, no, you just, weren't prepared to bring someone on to do the tasks that you want them to do. Diane: I think a lot of the time people are very into the job title. So they're like, I'm this level of business I'm going to get an OBM. And I'm this level, Oh, I'm ready to scale up or live a life. I need a VA. And when people are talking about let's me, I'm like, okay, what are the tasks that are going to this person? Let's forget about the job title. Let's look at what support you need and then what type of person you need. So. When would you say somebody is ready? Like maybe at the VA level, and then at the more OBM project manager level, like what do they need to have in place in either of those situations to know? Okay. Yes, I'm ready for a VA or an actually I'm ready for an OBM level support. Liz: Yeah. So with a VA. The way that I break it down is a VA is essentially a task ticker. Yes. There absolutely are more some who do a whole lot more than more than that. But just to simplify, like the concept there, the task sticker, they're the ones that you hand things to. They get it done. They're not coming up with all the ideas and creating all the plans and the strategies and giving you advice on, Hey, you could do this, you should do this based on your goals. It's this, that's not a VA VA's you hand them tasks. They get them done. And that's whatever kind of VA it is. Doesn't matter. That's essentially. What they are Diane: you think of that as like almost bringing someone junior into your business, who you are going to be directing and saying, I need you to do this. Okay. Done it now. I need you to do this. Okay. Now you've done it. That to me seems like a lot of. Preparation is needed. Those systems that you were talking about need to be in place. That doesn't sound like someone who's going to be able to decide how to post on social media or what time to post on social media or what the deadlines are around social media. a fair statement? Liz: I would say so. Yeah. And then, based on if they're a social media, VA, they may have those skills in that knowledge. And that may be part of, because there are some that come with that kind of package or that offering, or that support is I will do. Like a little bit of research. I will find the hashtags. I'll find the people to follow. I will do engagement. I will do whatever. And so, there, it, depending on what kind of VA, because there's so many where it could be like more of a personal VA or different ones when it comes to like marketing and social media and stuff, just depending on what they do, some of them will already be totally ready and able to. Get those tasks done, but you really do need to know what on earth it is. You want them to do and then to make life easy. And so you don't go, Oh no, they're not a good thing. When really it's you is to have that kind of process. So as you're like creating this month's content, write out what's happening. Are you like planning? Are you going through XYZ accounts trying to see what was the most engagement and should be like repurposed or going through your safe things to see what were things that you would like love throughout that past month that you wanted to maybe like somehow get inspiration from for this month and Go through that process, write it out. You can always trim that list down later at the moment, it's mostly just like brain dump, everything that's going on so that you don't actually miss it and writing it down as you go through, it will be so much better than if you are sitting down and okay, we're going to make SLPs and you're not actually doing the thing. You're just trying to create the SOP. It's no. Make the SOP at the same time as you're actually doing the task, which is what I've been doing as I train for my higher is as I'm going through and doing certain tasks for things I'm recording loom videos, I'm writing down those steps because I'm in the middle of that task. And I don't actually miss anything because I'm literally having to do the task right now. Rather than sitting down and be like, okay, what do I do next? Normally when I'm writing content and then trying to pull that off in air, you're always going to miss something. So yeah, I'd say it's a fair assessment to say that that's essentially what VA's do. And you would, you do need to have some kind of list because they're not going to. Want to just be sitting around, waiting for you to be like, Oh, here's a task. I need it done tomorrow or any had done today. And then it's that sense of emergency because your lack of planning doesn't constitute my emergency or whatever that phrase is, but it's, that was the other thing is like clients would come to me and they're like, hell, I don't really know what I need you to do right now. I just know I need a VA and I'm like, Okay. So I need to wait on your back and call and feel like I'm more of an employee than a contractor waiting for you to send me something. And then because it's so. Off the cuff, most likely it's going to be one of those. I need this done like right now. And you're like, well, I couldn't plan for it. I didn't like, and chances are, they don't have some kind of like system or process for it. So you have to figure it out on top of trying to do it in this sort of timeline that they're wanting to get done. And that just build on more frustration for everyone. Diane: okay. And then how do you know when you need the kind of OBM or project manager support level? What does that look like? Liz: so I would say. A little bit of, it depends on the person for me. I personally prefer that people have a team of some kind, whether it's I like one, even one person on your team, basically the person who is either like a virtual assistant to hand those tasks off to, and they actually get the task done or like a junior, if it's a designer, a junior designer who will get those tasks done, but basically it's. Having someone to like, you're at the top, you're handing off whatever, like the projects or like tasks are that you want done. And you're giving like the concept of, Hey, we have this new project and handing it over to me as the project manager, as the OBM. I come up with the plan I put together the timeline, I set everything up and then I just hand it over to the VA or the designer. And they do the actual work. So that's how that goes. And basically a lot of times I'm kind of the middleman because then the VA will come to me for any questions or the designer will come to me for any questions, or if they've completed something I can then go in and check their work, make sure that yes, you actually did do that. And that they didn't miss something based on the process that I know they need to be going through. And then once that set, depending on. What the actual thing is either I'm handing it over to their client for review, or I'm handing it back over to my client to do whatever it is they need to do. So for me, it's really, I'm in the middle of everything. And so really you do, if you're going to have a project manager, I did have a client once where it was just her and I, and I was her project manager, but it's because she had. Courses. And she already had like memberships and she had that kind of stuff and she wasn't really client work. And so really she was needing me and I was more of like an OBM in her business. And so she really just needed that accountability to actually do what she wanted to do and make sure like her schedule allowed for it. And that. We really put those boundaries and put, set up different projects based on what her goals were and making sure that she wasn't overlapping too many things and that it was actually going to be hitting the goals that she was wanting to hit and not just like spur of the moment, like, Ooh, I want to go launch a course. And it's like, yeah. When Y what do you like more details? And so I kind of act as like that kind of little someone called me a business therapist, and I was like, that's adorable, but no, but yes. for them They didn't have a team, but eventually we did start adding a team because of the type of work that she was trying to do. in general, most OBMs and operations managers and project managers do need you to have at least one person on your team to manage. Because other than that, it's like, are you okay with me managing you and telling you what to do? So you then are sitting in the role of both CEO and. The implementer, the one who actually gets the task, if you're comfortable with that. Cool, like more power to you. Most people at that point, when they're trying to hire someone at my skill level and what might I do, they're wanting to not have to do that work anymore. They won't be able to do hop on those strategy calls, do all the marketing stuff and not actually do. Like the designing or do the writing or whatever it is, they want someone else to do it. And so at that point it's yeah, you have to have a team member for that. Diane: Awesome. This has been really helpful to think through both the systems and process side, but then also, okay. Who are we bringing into a team and why? So to finish up, I like to ask a couple of questions of all of my guests. The first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? Liz: For me, it's definitely then when my time is being used and I. Personally, my life is a little bit crazy right now with what, like my husband's schedule and stuff is and getting ready for maternity leave. But in general, I work during the day, like normal, like typical, like what you would consider nine to five business hours. I'm not necessarily working during that time, but that's when I'm like, quote unquote available for clients. And then after 4:00 PM, I'm out. You won't hear from me. You won't see me. I do not exist. After that point, I've clocked out for the day and I don't work weekends or holidays. I take two weeks off at Christmas and encourage and slightly have push all of my clients into doing the same thing. Diane: Awesome. So finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you got as a lifestyle entrepreneur? Liz: It was very much in the beginning and it was take whatever work that is thrown your way. Oh my gosh. I cannot tell you how horrible that was. I still cringe when I think about the work that I had to do in the beginning, I had no specific like audience that I was trying to talk to or work with. I just said I do whatever for anybody. Yeah. One of my clients was a photographer owned, a cleaning business, owned a gym, and like there, she owned like four businesses. I was not prepared for half of that. I had skills with more of the photography business side, but none of the other things. So I was like, anytime, stuff like that came in, I was like, it just stressed me out. It overwhelmed me and looking also at how much I was charging. Definitely wasn't anywhere near what it should have been for how much work I was doing across multiple businesses for one client. Basically, I was charging her as though she was one client with one business. And that was the rate rather than one client with multiple businesses and charging that rate. So like for me, it was just, Oh, it was so bad thinking about who I actually worked with and the things that I did. That were so not in my wheelhouse and I spent three or four times more energy and all that, just to get tasks done because it wasn't something that I knew how to do or that I liked doing. And that was like, just do it so that you can get the money. I'm like, no, now it is. I'm like, if that's where you have to be. In order to do that, like for me, because I had the option, I'm like, I'm going to go work at a part-time job. Like I did Starbucks for eight years forever. And like I would have said, you know, what, if you need to work only with the people that you love to work with. And if you still need more income, go get a part-time job until you can find all the people to slowly start replacing that part-time job. Otherwise, you're going to be working way too much for most likely way too little. And you won't have any boundaries. You won't have any life. It just you'll regret it. And then you'll probably potentially come to the point where you're like, you know what? I don't want to own my own business. So that was Ugh. Diane: Well, thank you, Liz. I always love nerding out with you on all the behind the scenes stuff. What is the best place for people to connect with you? Liz: I would definitely say Instagram right now. That's where I tend to maybe not necessarily post on my feed, but I am in stories cause that's a lot faster. And I find that that's a lot easier to have more like conversations with people. So definitely right now Instagram is the number one place that I'm at right now. Diane: Liz writes. Epic blog posts you know, those like multi page ones that then are like downloadable, because there's so much information in them. So you definitely want to connect with her And I'll be sure to share your website and your resources as well so that people can find them super easily. And then go and say hi to Liz on Instagram. Thank you so much, Liz. I have had a great time chatting today. Liz: Awesome. Thanks for having me. It was super fun.