Minimalist Marketing For Maximum Impact With Suzi Gray

Diane: Hey, Hey, this week's guest is Susie gray, a messaging and marketing coach for quietly rebellious online business owners. She helps you captivate more best-fit clients with minimalist marketing, Susie. Welcome to the show. Suzi: hello. Thank you so much for having me. Diane: Before we dive into minimalist marketing, which I have a lot of questions about, let's dive in with a bit about your lifestyle business and how it's evolved . Suzi: Yeah, so, Oh my goodness. Now I have to remember how long I've been doing this for. So I started my business as a copywriter back when I was 27, registered my company on my 27th birthday. And the whole idea of starting my business was. Because I wanted to, you know, do things my way. I used to be a lawyer didn't want to be a lawyer anymore. Then I moved into a job which really didn't suit me. So I was like, what am I going to do? when I worked in advertising and advertising agency and I thought, Oh, I really enjoy this work, but is there another way that I could earn more money? Have more time for myself and still get to do this work. And so that's why I started the business in the first place. It was never because I wanted to grow an empire and I wanted to, make a million in the next six months and nothing like that. It was just, I wanted to. Live life on my own terms. I wanted the freedom. I wanted the flexibility. I don't even care if people think that's a cliche because it's a cliche for a reason. And so that for me, really, even though I've been doing this for, I think it's over five years now, hasn't changed and yes, my business has evolved massively. And yes, my, my goals within the business have evolved as well, but the reason that I started remains and the freedom and the flexibility that I get and the lifestyle that I lead, hasn't changed all that much. And that's exactly the way that I like it. Diane: did you start kind of in that one-to-one like service space. are you still there or has it transitioned into something that feels different for you? Suzi: yes, I started completely as one-on-one. So I was doing, I guess I started as a freelancer, so I would do, I was a copywriter. Whatever work you might need. Hey, I can do that for you. And then I, I discovered the online world and I guess the business evolved so that I was working with more and more. International online business owners, which is not how I'd expected it to go. I thought I'd be working with small local businesses. I'd meet them at networking events. And that was the case for a little while, but the more I immerse myself in the online world, the more I realized that there were so many people who needed copywriting services. I was really a specialized as a website copywriter. And I loved working with them because they were really similar to me and we just had fun. I felt like I understood them and it was easier for me to do my job. So that stayed for a good few years. I made a name for myself, I suppose, as a website copywriter for online business owners, mainly women. Mainly in their creative industries as well. So they were service-based too. And then, you know, as, as always, your, your brain is always going like, okay, so what direction do I want to take this business in? And is it still serving me on, on all the different levels? You know? And I realized through. Working with a lot of people who, who came wanting copy that they almost needed the step before. you know, you can invest a lot of money in, in having people write copy for you. But if you haven't done the foundation or staff already, if you haven't got that, what is essentially a really solid brand strategy and got your messaging really, really. Clear then the money you invest into copy is you're not necessarily going to see a great return on that. especially if you're for when it's, when website copy. So I then expanded my services. I suppose you could say more into the brand strategy and website. Copy. And I started to work on launches as well. Did quite a few of those and email campaigns and all of those kinds of things and learn a ton along the way. As you do, you know, good learnings and sort of not so good learnings that then Yeah, I guess guided me more towards what I'm doing now. And I realized that, although I love writing copy and I'm good at it, it was exhausting. It was really mentally draining. And I was just feeling like. if I didn't make some kind of change, then it doesn't matter how, how much time or space I have outside of my work. If I'm not still enjoying the work that I'm doing then that's going to have a knock on effect on the time outside of the work. So I started to shift then into exploring more of the mentoring or the coaching side. Of what I could do. And I knew that I never wanted to be a copywriting teacher. Like I never wanted to create a copy course or become a a mentor to people who they just wanted to understand how, how to write copy. I just never wanted to do that and I didn't understand why I'm not sure I understand why even now, but I guess I started to see that there was so much more that I brought to the table than, than just, and I use that in quotes copy and, and helping people write copy. And so. It merged more into Messaging and marketing and helping people really find what their brand stands for and what it really wants to say and then think about, okay, what are the creative compelling ways that we can put those messages out into the world and captivate the right people? Diane: It feels to me like your minimalist marketing is almost in direct contrast to the omnipresent message. there were a lot of marketers, bro, and not bro who come at content and copy in a way that is like, how can you repurpose it so that you're showing up five times a day on Instagram. And the second someone's tapped on your website suddenly you're everywhere for them. So how did you come to the minimalist concept? I guess maybe what is it to start with? Suzi: Yeah, I love, I love what you said, bro. And not bro. Cause yes, I, I agree. So I guess the first thing to say is this is why it's so important to build. I describe it as a captivating brand. Like my company is called captivation house. It's all about being very intentional in the way that you are building your brand and expressing yourself through that brand. In order to captivate the right people. And when you do that foundational work, it can feel like you're having to turn yourself inside out. But that's the point. Like you have to go that deep in order to get the stuff that is going to be interesting because when you only go surface level with anything, people have seen it all before. It's not intriguing, it's not captivating. And so when you're building a brand, you want to get to the good stuff you want to get to the stuff that can be. Uniquely associated with you that people start to recognize as you and you, you become known for. And so when you've done that work and you really own it, which, you know, that requires like the courage and the confidence to own it, and then not change your mind next week. Like if you're working with a, a good brand person, they will have done the work. So it's, so you, that you, you will never really need to just completely an athlete, change, change everything. your brand then can do so much of the hard work for you. So whether it's your website, which, you know, lives and breathes 24 seven on its own. whether it's like all of the other kind of marketing collateral that goes with it, when you've got something that feels unique and that feels captivating, like it does so much of the hard work for you. It's also much easier for other people to market on your behalf because it's easier for them To talk about, it's easier for them to, to remember. And it's just more exciting today. Like, you know, Oh, there's this really cool person. And she has this really cool website, like go check it out. So that's the first thing that I, that I want to say because yeah, like with anything, the more effort you put into it from the beginning, the greater, the rewards you will reap from it. And then when it comes to the concept of minimalist marketing, I am all about doing like the least work possible for the greatest result. yes, Y you know, why do so much more than you need to? And I think it's, it requires some strength to have that approach. Especially when we are in an echo chamber of the advice or the narrative that suggests you, you have to be omnipresent and you have to be like on every platform every day, all the time. And it's like consistency, consistency. And I'm like, yes, consistency is fine. But you get to define what that means to you. Consistency doesn't necessarily mean you have to show up on three platforms every single day. That to me sounds awful. That sounds like, Oh my goodness. Like that sounds overwhelming. So minimum is marketing is really about what is I mean, working backwards based on what your goals are, because if your goals aren't, you know, to make. Seven figures automate multiple 60 days or whatever. then you don't necessarily need to even consider being across, you know, multiple different platforms with messages going out constantly. my business has is service-based it's generally high tide to get high touch, I suppose you could, you could say so I haven't had to worry about, Oh my goodness. I need to build a massive audience to sell to it's, you know, I just need to focus on. The depth of the connections that I'm creating within a smaller audience that feels so much more manageable to me. And I'm just, you know, having conversations with people and That was easy to me. It feels simple to do. And I focus on just, you know, one or two platforms at a time. And it depends on what kind of business model you have, but I truly believe that you should be basing your marketing on what your goals and intentions are and what, what kind of person you are and what kind of business model you have. Because if you're an introvert who. feels really uncomfortable going live, and someone's telling you, you need to be going live every day. Well, that's not going to feel good. So forget about doing that. Like what's the thing that's going to feel really easy, really simple for you. And then double down on doing that. And that's where the minimalism comes in. It's stripping out the access doubling down on what feels good and what works for you and just keep doing more of it. And then if you feel that you get to a place where you can add something, cool. Try it. Diane: Yeah, I think that was a hundred percent me with blogging. I enjoy writing, but the second you give me a requirement to write something. One of two things happen. I don't do it. Or I go really corporate. All of my corporate background comes out and when people read my writing and then they need me that like, Hm. You're not exactly what I was expecting. So for me, that's where the podcast came in because at least it's me as me. And then you're not having that kind of jarring moment of having read one of my blogs and then meeting me, you know, the one sounds like a business suit and the other one's in like converse and a hoodie You're not exactly showing up as you. So how do people who are. On the hamster wheel, they are Pinteresting Instagramming, Facebooking, LinkedIn, ING, repurposing, everything How do they begin to detox that back? Like how do they work out? Okay. What is that minimal for me? Suzi: Hmm. Yeah. So if you're currently doing like all the things and I, I also want to say that sometimes people think because it's social media it's free. You know, I'm not paying anything for this. So, it's free, but I'm like how much time and how much energy are you putting into trying to be in all these places all the time. Like you're spreading yourself so thin. And you are diluting your message by trying to be, you know, across all these, different channels consistently. So I would be thinking a few things. One, like, what is the platform that you actually enjoy showing up on? But pair that with where are you getting the most traction? So in terms of the people that you want to be working with if they are corporate businesses and you are hanging out on, I don't know, tech talk or even Instagram potentially then there may be a mismatch there that may not be. Quite right. So if it's like, okay, well I need to focus on LinkedIn then think about how can I make being on LinkedIn, work for me? How can I make this feel as fun as possible? And it's not always going to feel like really easy or really fun. But that's when you can start to experiment. And when you kind of cut out the other things, you then have more time and more spaciousness to experiment with the one thing. And find what feels good and test things this is all an experiment, isn't it? And give it time to work because sometimes people, you know, they, they think right, I'm going to go all in with this, but then they try it for like a week or two weeks and they're like, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. So, you know, I've obviously done something wrong and it's not the case at all. Like you have to give things. Probably three months plus to really start to see the results of, of the effort that you are putting in. I think it takes a lot of self-trust, to make a decision, it can be really difficult to not just make the decision in your head, but then to actually. Take action on that decision. So you can say to yourself, I'm going to focus on this platform and these other pieces of content that I'm going to put out on that platform. But then if you don't, if you don't actually do that, and you're still trying to squeeze everything else in that's, you know, you're, you're just going to end up a mess, a hot mess behind the scenes, or maybe even in front of the scenes. Diane: Marketing is one of those spaces where this is probably harder than any other piece of your business, because the people who want you to be omnipresent and therefore buy their thing that helps you be omnipresent are really good marketers. And they're talking to you about the thing that they are really good at. And so that self-trust that you're talking about of taking a moment and being. Do I actually want to do this or am I doing it because somebody else is telling me to do it all because the data is telling me to do it. Like it has to either be you or the data. Not everybody is going to be Gary V and I love Gary V but not everybody has someone following them around with the camera and a cartoonist on Suzi: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a really important point to make that sometimes you can compare yourself to somebody who is, let's say, preaching this stuff, and they are in a completely different stage of business. They have the systems and operations in place to manage it. They have the team behind them. They have the money to invest in that team or in being in all these different places, maybe they are they're investing huge money in ads. And to try to, put yourself in the same shoes as them, it's, it's never going to work, but it's just, you're at a completely different point. And to, to feel like you should be doing all of these other things, because. Someone else is telling you to, because that you kind of idolize them or they're seen as this celebrity entrepreneur or whatever, it can be really damaging, I think to somebody's confidence. And yeah, I hear the word should come up. So much, and I just want to banish it because of course someone is going to say, if they're selling you something, of course, they're going to be telling you this. This is how you do it because that's the system that they're selling to you. Whereas I just don't believe in the formulas and The step-by-step everything's it's fine. And if it's worked for you, that's awesome. And yeah. Cool. Go, go sell it to people. But if you are considering buying something, you have to be really sure that that is the approach you want to take with your marketing, because if it's not. Then you are just going to feel conflicted. You're going to feel resentful and you're going to feel like you've wasted. your good money. Diane: So what's the thing that we can use if we go minimalist and we're going to pick a platform, for example, say we just pick one and we're going to do an email and we're going to do whatever that platform is. I'm thinking of this because actually, funnily enough, before we jumped on today, I saw your Facebook post about your Glastonbury. Story and then got your email, which was the same story and read both of them. And it's only now listening to you talk I'm like, it's not even like, I didn't remember it from three months ago. I needed to hear it again from like 30 minutes ago. So I think even that minimalist thing packs such a punch, but what's the secret power behind. Showing up only in a minimal way, but still having that impact of the omnipresent person Suzi: Yeah, that's so interesting to hear because I could easily sit here and think, Oh my goodness, I shouldn't have done that. If I was going to send an email out, I should have made sure that my Facebook post was something different. I could easily sit here and do that, but I'm like, yeah, it's easy for me to just do both because there will be so many people who only see one of them. And if someone, like you sees both of them, then cool bonus. Okay. It's like just reinforce the message for them. If your content is good and I call it story marketing, I've got minimalist marketing and story marketing. But I love to use stories within my marketing. Because your, the stories that you have are always going to be unique to you. I think we see so much stuff repeated online and people are just bored of it. And so if you want to think, okay, well, how can I be more captivating in the way that I'm showing up? I think stories is always going to be the answer. And there are so many ways you can approach stories, but in doing so. You can reach people on an emotional level. You can educate them, you can entertain them. There are just so many different ways you can touch people with a story. And I believe that you can link any story to a point that you want to make in your business. Like you can segue between something completely unrelated. To business, to something that is going to be relevant to your audience. And that's the kind of stuff that I love to help people with. Diane: that's such a skill. when you read a really great copywriters email, it's almost like the treat at the end to see, like, how did the segue happened? And then to sit there and be like, I would never have thought that in a million years, that's where we were going. And it kind of has that pattern interrupt. And I think that is also your story is the reason that I can read your Facebook posts. And then we do email. Because it's a story and I'm like, Oh wait, wait, wait. I mean, something happened. What was it? I'm not thinking about, Oh wait, what did she tell me to do in that Facebook post I'm thinking, wait, what was the story again? Easy way to get the message across, but super skillful behind the scenes Suzi: maybe it's something that comes, I guess, naturally to me. But I, yeah, I always think there are, there are those connections and those threads that can be made and then. If people start to enjoy reading your stories, that's when they're going to want to open an email from you, because it's like, okay, I'm going to read something that I haven't already read on the internet today. And that's, I think what so many people are craving, just something like a breath of fresh air from just the, marketing messages that are rammed down our throats all day. Diane: what's the place that people can go to experience the Susie magic. The Susie captivation. Suzi: Ah, so my website is the best place to go, which is captivation house.com. Haven't explore. If you want to head to the trapdoor page, that will take you on a little a little hunt around the website and find that kind of secret clues. Crack the code and then you get entered into, well, do you know what? I'm not, I'm not even gonna tell you. You can go to captivation house ago, hit track door and have some fun. Diane: And don't worry. You definitely can't be worse at it than I was. I like, as soon as you pointed out how I was supposed to follow the clues, it was so obvious to me, but it had just, I don't know, my brain and as someone who loves puzzles, right. I think I just, I just Suzi: You're not the only person I will tell you that you're not the only person, but yeah. You're if you go do it, it's what you will find. They are the clues. They're not the answers. They're the clues. Diane: And when you get it and you get it really quickly, feel free to DM me on Instagram and tell me how easy it was . So I love to finish up with asking you a couple of questions to all of my guests. The first one is what is the number one lifestyle boundary that you have for your business? Suzi: Yes, I love this. I love boundaries. So for me simplicity and spaciousness are really at the core of. Everything in my life and business, I try for that to be the case. And so I'm really protective over the white space in my calendar. If I, you know, opened up my calendar and my whole week was just booked with calls and appointments and just all the things that would just freak me out. So I'm very protective over the white space in my calendar and how much I'm putting into each day and each week. Diane: Yeah, kind of minimalist business. What do I need to do to get the results and everything else just becomes a no, I like that approach. Suzi: Yeah. That's pretty much, yeah, that pretty much sums me up. Diane: okay. And finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've ever got? Suzi: Yeah, it's up. I could say a couple of things this was earlier on. And it was more specific to when I was copywriting. And I was basically told that creative business owners who was pretty much the, all of the people that I worked for. They, you know, they don't pay, they are, they're not a good, not a good client base. you shouldn't be a creative copywriter. Which is, is what I was really good at was the kind of personality and views creative stuff. And so I completely, that, that advice sway me off. So it may not be cookie cutter in, in like a global way, but it's, it was within my industry. She was basically saying, you know, If you want to be a successful copywriter, you have to go down this route and kind of ditch everything. That's got you to where you are already. And so me being, you know, the little rabbit in headlights was like, okay, I'll try this. And did I make more money? Yes. Did it make me happy? No. And so that really Made me think a lot about who I listened to and that, you know, trusting my own gut was probably the most important thing that I could do going forward. Diane: there's always a part of me that wonders when somebody is pushing you so hard on a should like you should do this, which is very similar to what they have done. How much of that is actually coming from a. Place of, I don't think it's coming from a bad place. I don't think anyone's trying to sabotage you or anything, but I think there's a portion of it. That's coming from a validate my choices perspective, versus let me find the thing that fits for you, Suzi: Yeah. Yeah. If it's like a narrow-mindedness I think that because something has been so successful for you, that means it's the only way to do it. Or. That you won't find the same level of success by doing it any other way, but it just doesn't take into account anything else, the conversations that we should be having are I just used the word should the conversations I would love for us to be having are more nuanced, you know, and considering so many other layers and factors. About us as people and what we actually want, because my goals and my personality was so different from this person. And I don't want the business that she has and that's okay. Diane: I say to people, unless you are the exact same person with the exact same life and the exact same goals. Doing it the exact same way someone else did it doesn't make any sense. And I think if anything, 2020 is going to expose that because what did work in February of 2020 is not working in December of 2020, or probably June of 2021. So suddenly just follow my 10 steps and YouTube can have overnight success and be omnipresent falls on deaf ears. Suzi: Yeah. Diane: So where is the best place for people to connect with you on social? I know people will probably have questions or they'll want to reach out and carry on the conversation with you. Where's the best spot Suzi: Yes, I would love that. So you can find me over on Instagram I'm act, Susie. Great underscore because someone really had it without the underscore. have you cannot be on Facebook too, if you like, so this is a good example of how I like to keep things simple. I love Instagram, but it's so much more of a pain for me to post on Instagram than it is for me to post on Facebook. Cause I can literally just write a post and click publish on Facebook. So. I tend to have more content on Facebook, so you can come at me over there. But drop me a little voice note on Instagram. If you want to say, Hey, Diane: thank you so much. I have loved this conversation, obviously, you and I completely vibe on our approach to business. So I knew it was going to be a good one, but I have some nuggets that I have taken away and I'm sure everyone else will as well. Suzi: good. I hope so. Thank you so much for having me.