How To Close The Sale Before Before The Sales Call With Michelle Vroom

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Michelle Vroom has spent over a decade in PR and marketing, and she's turned that experience into simple ways to get visibility and clients that even with limited time and resources. Hey Michelle, welcome to the show. [00:00:12] Michelle: Thanks for having me. Diane, I'm excited to dive in. [00:00:14] Diane: let's kick things off with a little intro to you, your business, a bit about your journey. [00:00:20] Michelle: You got it. So I've been in business for about five and a half years now. I started my business when my oldest child was six months old because I thought a six month old and a brand new business sounds like fun. Not chaotic at all. Right. And so I actually ended up, you know, going back to work. I had a corporate job. Pretty great. Pretty great. Right. Like I was the breadwinner, it was a nice cushy corporate job and went back for two months and then said, Nope, because it was just way too much to try to juggle that my business and a baby. And I knew that I wanted to give this my all, like, I would always regret not really going all in on my business. And so I left my full-time job. I was no longer the breadwinner, so it was definitely a big financial sacrifice for our family. But I knew that it was what I needed to like really push myself. To do this thing. Right. And not just like fall back into a safety net. For me, that was, that was for me personally. So, since then I've added two more children. I've got three crazy boys at home. I have a multiple six-figure business and it's, you know, not always the easiest journey, but it is such a rewarding journey. And. Over the course of those five and a half years, you know, I started out doing full service marketing. So I was doing all the work for my clients. I was doing everything from like website copy to blog management, to social media management, and then really got into coaching. When I realized that I wanted to support other women who were starting businesses and who wanted that same freedom and be able to help them get clients. And now my business has evolved to where I am focused on helping women get to their first 10. Using their Facebook group. And that feels really, really good. It feels really exciting to be able to support women in that way. So my journey has gone through a lot of different evolutions and I think that's totally normal. And I want to say that for anybody listening, like you will go through evolutions. You will go through seasons, you will go through phases. And being open to those is kind of, what's brought me here to this point. [00:02:18] Diane: Wow. Okay. That's some serious time management. I feel like instead of talking about sales and digital marketing, we should be talking about like time management with you. [00:02:26] Michelle: was, Yeah. The only thing I can say, because I look back and I'm like, wow, on maternity leave. Like, what was I thinking? I just had my first child. Like, I think that everything changed when I had my first kid, right. Everything changed. My priorities changed, what I wanted changed. And there was such a drive and desire there that it was like, I'm going to make this happen no matter what. And no matter like what it takes now, I don't know if that was the healthiest thing on maternity leave, but like that's what happened and it, it was meant to be right. It worked out the way that it was supposed to work out. [00:02:58] Diane: Amazing goodness. So selling is I guess, one of those things that you have to help women trying to get to the 10 K a month with a lot, right. It's super tricky. No matter how much personal development work we do, we all just carry some kind of baggage around it. And I love this idea. Pre-selling somebody. So they're jumping onto a sales call and that pretty much already sold we're just interviewing them but is this just some fancy marketing [00:03:25] Michelle: so I love it. So, it's, it's not fancy marketing. It's really more psychological than anything else because when you think about people and how they make decisions, they make decisions based on a mobile. That's why relationships are so powerful. And that's why like, no matter what fad comes along, like passing fad. Cause there are a lot of marketing fads out there. Right? No matter what fad comes along, relationships will never go out of style. Like they will always matter. And that's because people make those decisions based on emotion, not based on like. Right. They might think they're doing it based on logic, but really it's based on emotion. And so yes, you still have to build trust. Right. I think that there's sometimes the sense of entitlement in the online space. Like I should just get the sale or just have somebody reach out to me. No, you've got to earn their trust. Right. You've got to earn and trust. I think can also be defined in a lot of different ways. But when I say trust, I mean, they believe that you have the solution to their problem and can help them get there. Like, that's really what we're talking about. Right. A lot of people wait until the sales call to try to establish that trust. When you look at like the basic principles of marketing, right. And behavior in general, people need, at least it used to be like seven to 10, but I think it's more like 12 or 10, 10 to 12 different touch points. Right. When I say touch points, like they need to see and hear something. From you in some form 10 to 12 different times before they buy. Now, those can go really quick. Right? Those can also take a little bit longer, like the buying journey. It's a journey. We don't, we can't always control like how fast it happens. And sometimes I think when we try to control how fast that's, when we get into like that spammy weird, like sales. What I really want people to know is if it's 10 to 12 touch points before someone buys from you, like, don't wait until the sales call to start establishing those touch points. Like you can be creating domain. Because pre-selling essentially is creating demand for your offer before somebody gets on a call. Well, how do you create demand? You create demand inside of them, right? They, they feel like you're in demand because you are being positioned as the authority figure like that is marketing. Right. But that's also what pre-selling is, is becoming the authority figure. A lot of people are either. Too much on the one end of like, I'm just going to shove my offer down your throat, or more often than not, this is what I tend to see. They're not positioning themselves as the authority figure. They're not doing any of that. Right. And so if you're not doing any of that, and then the person gets on a sales call with you and you feel like you have to close the sale in one call, think about the pressure that you're under. Whereas if you can really. And, and I'll talk more about like how you do this, but if you can really think about like pre-selling and showing people why, what you do matters and how it can change their life, how it could change their business and why you are the person to work with them. If you can do all of that in your marketing, whether it be in your messaging, in your content, in the lives you do, like whatever that is. Then when they get on the sales call, they're already either all the way sold. Sometimes that can happen, or they are like, You know, more than 50% sold and the rest is just their own fear. That's keeping them, you know, that that's standing in the way and then you can talk through it with them. So when you look at the basic marketing principles of behavior, like we need to be having our marketing and our content do way more heavy lifting. Like we are putting so much emphasis and onus on the sales call itself. That it's no wonder, we feel exhausted from all the. [00:07:00] Diane: You said two things that I thought were really interesting. The first being the 10 to 12 touch points. When I think when people say like, you need to talk about your offer more, it's really hard for people to assess what that more is. You know, so if you are somebody who doesn't really like to talk about your offer or you're somebody who is shoving it down people's throats the whole time, it's like, where's that happy medium. So I think that's a really interesting thing to highlight, to be like, Hey, each person on your list needs to have heard this 10 to 12 times. If they're even an ideal buyer, [00:07:30] Michelle: Exactly. And I call it the snowball effect because you know, when you're like, so I'm obviously like snow's on my mind as we headed out of the fall and into the winter here in the Northeast. But you know, when you start making a snowman, right. And you've got the little, like, what's the hardest part, the hardest part is starting the thing, like try to get the soda stick and like form a ball that you can roll. As you roll that snowball, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And soon it's as if you're not doing anything at all, you're just like barely pushing it and it's become this big thing. That's exactly what this is, right. It compounds every time you show up and talk about your offer, it compounds, it gets easier. People hear more about you. They start registering you. And I think that's something that a lot of people forget to do. I also think that if you feel like a broken. Then you're talking about it enough, if you don't, then you're not talking about it off. And I'm going to say that because some people are like surprised when I say that [00:08:21] Diane: yeah. The other thing that you said that I really liked was we feel entitled to the call, most people would say you need to earn the second. But you're actually taking it one step further and saying, no, you need to earn that call. Like, don't even have the coal, if you haven't earned that trust already. That Cole is hard work, because you're trying to do both things. You're trying to do that, like split focus of, are you for me, but then also, how do I sell you all at the same time? [00:08:49] Michelle: And there are natural objections, right. That come up on a sales call. I mean, everybody gets them. I think we need to normalize objections. Objections are actually a good thing because they mean that the person's thinking about it or they wouldn't share an objection. Right. And so when you are getting, you know, what tends to happen as people go on sales calls and they hear similar objections over and over again, there's a pattern to them. Those are objections that you can absolutely a hundred percent handle. In your marketing, like that's part of pre-selling too, is what are the objections that people have to maybe even booking the call? Like oftentimes we're like call, book the call, booked the call, but what if they have objections to booking the call? Whatever those objections are to booking the call probably are similar objections to working with you. If you can talk about those and handle those in your content, then your. You know, shifting that person's perspective before they get on the sales call. It doesn't mean that they'll never, like, you'll never hear an objection again, if you get really good at pre-selling, but it does mean that the objection itself, maybe isn't as strong or maybe the surface level, because there are surface level objections, like money is a surface level. Objection below it. Right. There's a deeper objection of, I don't know if this is going to work for me or I don't know if I can do this right. Probably more so a lack of belief in themselves. So, if you can address and start talking about that before the sales call, then you remove the surface objection altogether. And you're able to really get to the heart of what's going on, which helps the sales process go a little bit faster, especially on those calls. Or maybe even, you know, get rid of that objection altogether, because they're like, you helped me handle it, like in your content. Like you don't have to be talking to someone like what we're doing right now in order to help them handle the objection. Like you can handle. You know, in doing a Facebook live or handle it in your content or whatever that might be, or in sending an email to your list. And I think we should be talking about that stuff more. A lot of people don't even want to bring up the objection or what people are thinking because they have their own, like, thoughts about that. We should be bringing it up and we should be bringing it up a lot sooner than we are right now. [00:10:47] Diane: So how do we start this? Pre-selling so 10 to 12 touch points. Is that me going on Instagram every day? Going buy my thing, please buy my thing. [00:10:55] Michelle: No, It's definitely not. This is where, like, and for me, my Facebook group serves this purpose, but this is where I really challenge and encourage people to have an audience like you need. And I'm not even gonna say challenge and encourage, cause that almost feels too soft. You need an audience of your own it's 2021. It's not going to cut it. If you don't have an audience of your own. Now, what that looks like, depends on who your people are, where they're spending time. Right. If you're on Facebook. Facebook group is what you need, because that's where Facebook is placing its emphasis, its priority content and groups is seen higher up in the algorithm. And so a group has worked really well for us. And the reason it works well is because when you create that community, right, you can get to those 10 to 12 touch points in a lot of different ways. You can get there by sharing a client testimonial or a story, right? You don't have to say buy my stuff. Like let's say. Talk for you, right. We do like monthly clientele laws when we're bring a client on and go live with them in our Facebook group. And just talk about their journey, right? Yes. Like how they worked with us and what happened, but like their journey as a whole, which is so cool because people feel like they're hearing that story and it's not really like selling, selling, if that makes sense. You know, for others, like it might be just sharing your story and talking about what's happened or sharing your opinion or perspective. On a particular issue in your industry, right? Like owning what you believe and talking about that. I mean, that is also pre-selling because people want to do business with people who have similar values, right. With people who, you know, operate in a similar way. And so when you can really show up from that space and attract those people, like that's the kind of content that's going to do it. It's not buy my thing, buy my thing, buy. People like there is no shortage of that, that stuff online. People want to feel served. They want to feel seen. They want to feel heard. They want to feel like you care about me, right. As a person, as a human, not just as a sale. And so there's a lot of ways that you can do that, but having your own community gives you the environment to be able to get those touch points and to do it in a much more efficient. Simple way. Right. As opposed to like referrals and referrals, aren't a bad thing. I have great referral partners. Like that's not what I'm saying here. A lot of people are too reliant on like speaking individually to every single person and like having those individual conversations. Whereas, you know, in my Facebook group, we're talking to thousands of people at once, right. And, and people are at different points in the journey. Some people are still on, you know, touch point number three, but some people are on touch point number 10. And because I'm able to put out like one live or one post reaches, hundreds of people. Then we're able to get that snowball effect so much faster and to do it across the board. And that's also how you, you make your marketing more simplistic, right? Is by reaching more people at once, instead of feeling like you have to have all of those individual conversations every single day, again, conversations and relationships are important, but I think for a lot of people they're making it very complicated. [00:13:52] Diane: and are you platform agnostic? [00:13:53] Michelle: I think you pick one platform and you go all in on that platform. And when I say all in like each platform has its own unique way of doing things like Instagram, I think reels are hot right now. Right? Go all in, utilize the program, like, like play with what works in that program and that platform. [00:14:09] Diane: Right. Yeah. I think people get, when they hear somebody speak about how they've done something, they get very focused on now. Okay. Well now I need to build a Facebook group when actually, if you've already spent time building an audience somewhere else, just make sure that those touch points are happening, where you've got your [00:14:25] Michelle: Exactly. Like, think about a party, right? It's essentially like you hosting a party at your home. It's just your virtual party, wherever your community is. Okay. So when someone comes to your party, do you just leave the door open and hope that they find their way in and they find their way to the bathroom and snacks and know, right? Like you're there to greet them. Yeah. I mean, this is something we're actually taking to an even deeper level inside of our Facebook group. Like how can we customize the journey for people? Right. But not in a way that like requires me to message every single person who joins our group. Like how can, when someone joins our group, can we ask them, like, what are you struggling with? Like, what's coming up for you. Let's customize your. Take you to a training that's going to work for you. Right? Like I also think people fail to repurpose their content. Like you probably already have existing content that you've put out that will pre-sell, you're just not repurposing it. You're not sharing it with new people who come into your audience. Like we have an entire system. For how to do this through, through automated emails, right. That go out to people. Who've joined our group, but it's it's as if like we're right there being like, Hey, we're going to help support you. We're going to help personalize this for you. And that's how we're able to do it with such a large amount of people. So I also think looking at, you know, pre-selling as, okay, the minute they come into contact with you, the minute they join your, your community, what has to happen? Before they even get on the call with you, what shifts have to be made? What beliefs do they need to have, right. What seeds need to be planted before they ever reached the point of, of having that sales conversation. If you can even sit down and map that out and really think about that, then you can design that party and that experience for them in a way that nobody else is doing. And that's what people want. That's what people are hungry for. Right. They're hungry for that community. They're hungry for that personalization. And that's how you pre. So hopefully this is also shifting people's opinions on what pre-selling means. Cause I think people think it's like, buy my thing, join my wait list, do this, do that right? [00:16:18] Diane: Well, it's hard to balance that, you know, when you hear somebody needs that many touch points and you're not talking about your offer enough, I think when people hear, you're not talking about your. They think it means explicitly like the CTA is go and buy my thing. Versus I'm telling you a story that demonstrates something that's here to quietly overcome an objection without me going I'm overcoming your objections so that you can buy my thing. [00:16:43] Michelle: It is a conversation, a two-way conversation. That's what pre-selling is because here's the thing our offer. If you're a service-based business owner, your offer is kind of your brain, right? Like your what's inside your brain, the knowledge that you have worked hard to acquire, which is very, very valuable. And a lot of people don't value. Okay. But if that's your offer, then you don't need to say buy my thing. You just need to talk about what's important to you. What you've done, how you've supported people, what your journey has been, and the right people are going to be attracted to that. And they're going to see a little bit of themselves in your story. And that's when that emotional connection that I referenced earlier gets established. [00:17:21] Diane: Is there something that will just grind that journey to a halt? Because I think we all think about customer journey as from the moment they discover us to the moment they give us money, but we probably pay more attention to them giving us money than being, how do we get them just to the Cole, ready to give us money. So it's almost like shortening that customer journey, but I'm wondering if there's anything that just makes people. Detour left that you see people doing other than maybe trying to shove their offer down people's throats all the [00:17:50] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think one of the things that comes to mind when you ask that question is, you know, people just like, almost like being tone, deaf, right? Like if you think about the fact that this is a relationship and. However many people you're in relationship within your community. Like it's still a relationship between you and them. I mean, what are the no-nos in a relationship? Like, could you imagine if a friend were like, I'm in a relationship and this person like never calls me back. They, when I talk to them, they only talk about themselves, right? Like the very like tone deaf, like one way. This is what I need. Type thing. Like if that's the energy that you're bringing to the relationship with your community, you're not going to be pre-selling right. You're just going to be like hammering that, like, this is about me, right? So I think, I think the biggest no-no is looking at your motivation maybe for how you do those things for the actions that you take. If your main motivation is me, me, me, and what I want and not what your client needs, then you've already lost. Because they can sense that [00:18:56] Diane: You kind of become that person who like you see the number flash up on your phone and you're like, oh, I haven't heard from me for six months. I bet you're going to tell me that you moving house and you need me to come like pack boxes or whatever, you know, the person who only ever shows up when it's all like come to my birthday and bring an expensive gift. Even though we haven't spoken in three years. Right. [00:19:15] Michelle: Yeah. How many of you are showing up that way right now in your business and marketing? And I don't say that to shame anyone. It's the reality. We all fall into that at different points, right? Depending on what's going on inside of us. And that's the work that you need to do is to get yourself to a point where you can give right in the relationship instead of just, this is what I want, and this is what I need from you. [00:19:35] Diane: So from a pure practical perspective, in those 10 to 12 touch points, what are the things that you would want to hit? So you said things like. You said values, objections. It's often easier for people to think in content buckets, because they used to thinking of social media [00:19:52] Michelle: Yup. Yup. Yeah. So I think there's a couple of content buckets that you've got to consider here. So if I were to put them into categories, it's like, number one, what is your. Offer, right? Like, what is the thing that you were putting out there? I think a lot of people don't even know sometimes. Number two, like I really, I, there, there's a reason why we all create the offers that we have. And usually without even realizing it we've created the offers we have, because we see something either missing in the industry or it's in response to maybe practices that we see that are not aligned with how we do business or how we want to do things. That whole concept of like taking ownership over your beliefs. Like, I think that definitely has to be a category where you are talking about what's happening in your world and maybe like really focusing on shifting people's perspective. Like, why are they having, like, they think they're having their problem for a particular reason, but is that actually the reason why they're having their problem and how can you kind of address some of those misconceptions? I think that's another one that, that needs to happen. You know, definitely like. Having them see themselves in your clients, but also giving them some of that fear of missing out. Right? Like in a good way of this is happening right now. Like I am serving my clients with this right now, for example, every single third every single Wednesday we post a picture. From one of our coaching calls for my, my group coaching program, we post it in my free group and like tag people would be like, this is our coaching call. This is what we talked about so that people can see what's happening inside of the program. It kind of like lifts the veil a little bit. And so I think being able to like give people that behind the scenes picture of how you serve your clients of what you do can be really, really cool. I think also not being afraid to share, like what makes you, you outside of business? Like, I've got three crazy boys at home. I used to try to hide that. I used to literally like tilt my camera so that people could not see the changing table in the corner of my living room, where I used to do my Facebook lives because I come from the corporate world. You're supposed to be buttoned up, whatever that means. Right. You're not supposed to talk about the fact that you have kids who are in diapers. Well, as soon as I let that go people came to me like crazy. Like moms were like, no, you get it. You have three young kids. I want to work with you. Right. And so me sharing that and not being afraid like the other day I'm at the time that we're recording this it was daylight savings a few days ago. And so the next day I had my thing of coffee. I'm not a coffee drinker, but I got a thing, a coffee, cause my kids were up really early, like really early. And I posted. And people loved it. That may not seem like pre-selling, cause I'm not talking about my business, but I'm talking about who I am as a mom, because people want to do business with that kind of person. And so I think also creating a category and a bucket for you to show up as you. And what makes you, you, what habits do you have? What fun things do you do outside of business? Like sometimes we're so afraid to like let people in to see that, but that is very powerful. And I think that needs to be a big piece of it. [00:22:44] Diane: Yeah, I think it goes back to what you said about like you're selling you. They have to actually want. Spend time with you. [00:22:51] Michelle: Yeah. I mean, I put out what we call truth bombs in my Facebook group, where we talk about like the tough love, little kind of nuggets that I put out. That's the stuff that my clients get used to when they work with me. And so to your point, like being able to share that and share that part of my personality, that's what attracts like-minded people. And those are the best kinds of clients. [00:23:12] Diane: Do you find that pre-selling you get more of the right people on your sales call, [00:23:16] Michelle: A thousand percent, a thousand percent. You will notice the quality of your calls like increase. You might notice sometimes the amount of calls that you're booking, decrease. But the quality increases, which means conversion rates increase, which means your time is better spent. You're actually landing clients in a shorter, without spending as many hours on calls, which I think is also a part of the freedom that everybody talks about and, and, you know, but they want to have in business. So the answer is, yes, you will notice that you might see the amount of calls go down, but. You're going to see the conversions just skyrocket. And if it's not a conversion right there on that call. Like because of the pre-selling that I do, people will still come back around and buy from me. So if it's a no, right now it's a yes. Down the road. And I think that's also really powerful, right. Is just continuing to honor that relationship and be open to when they do decide to work with you, because I'm not in like a desperate place of, I have to land this client, or I'm never going to see them again on the sales call. I think sometimes people come from that place as well. When you have your own community and you are pre-selling. You don't have to worry because you can have the confidence that, you know, what, if they're the right fit. It may have been a no right now, but they'll come back around and I've seen that over and over again. [00:24:31] Diane: I like how simple that is as well. [00:24:33] Michelle: We need simple. We need way more simple in marketing. [00:24:37] Diane: Oh my goodness. Yes. 1000%. Yes. Oh, so to finish up, I always ask all my guests the same two questions. The first one is what's your number one lifestyle boundary for your. [00:24:49] Michelle: I don't work on weekends and I take a 24 hour social media break over the course of the. [00:24:55] Diane: Ooh, is that a Saturday break or a Sunday break or just whichever [00:24:59] Michelle: rotate whichever one, I feel like, or whatever makes sense. Right. But I do that because I feel like I need that mental break. I mean, there's so much on social. That's great, but so much. Kind of toxic. Right. And so being able to take that mental health break, I think is really important, but then not working on weekends, like I used to work on weekends and I don't anymore because I really want to preserve that time, not just for time to spend with the kids, but also time for me to just like, be me. It's not always easy, but I do it. And that's been a boundary that I've, I've really been able to honor. [00:25:31] Diane: yeah, definitely like needing that risk to allow you to come back the next week and show up, [00:25:37] Michelle: Yes. And like, not focus on business for a weekend, right? Like live your life because there is a life outside of business and it's so easy to forget that. [00:25:45] Diane: So true. Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given or you've heard since you moved into entrepreneur land? [00:25:54] Michelle: Oh gosh, there's so much. I would say that. And I don't know if this is the, like, it's not bad in theory, but I think it can be misconstrued when people say like, claim it and it'll happen. claim that you're going to reach this goal. I am seeing so many of those posts right now. I don't know if it's because we're, we're almost at the end of the year, at the time that we're recording this, but like claim that you're going to make X amount of money. And I don't think that's good advice because I think it T it, number one puts a lot of pressure on people to make it happen now. Right. Like when you talk about manifesting something or claiming something it's like almost gives the impression that it's instant. But then I also think that it totally diminishes. The action steps that need to be taken. There's a mix of action and your own thoughts, right? Like both of those things need to work in tandem for you to reach your goals. And so I feel like people that are kind of touting that, like I just, I think that's advice that leaves a lot of people feeling maybe more confused and also feeling like they're either not doing enough or doing too much. Or if it doesn't happen instantly because we live in a world of instant gratification, then that means there's something wrong with you. So, again, I don't know that that's like direct advice that's being given, but I just feel like so many people are talking about it right now. And it's not a bad thing in the sense that your thoughts absolutely do make an impact and do dictate everything else, but you just manifesting something or saying you're going to claim something. Sometimes, I think people lean on that because they're afraid to take the action to get toward their goal. [00:27:34] Diane: Well, this has been so interesting and so fun. I feel like it's a different conversation around it than I've had. And I know people are gonna want to carry on having that conversation with you. Where can they find you on social? [00:27:45] Michelle: Yeah, the best place to connect with me is inside of the Facebook group. It's called market like a boss. There are over 6,200 women in there who are just ambitious rock stars. And if you're listening to this, I know that you are too, and you would be a great addition. This is where we talk about the stuff. We talk about. I'm really big on putting yourself in the driver's seat of your marketing. That's why it's titled market like a boss, because I think you ought to be in control of how and when you get clients, as well as the type of clients that you get. And so if that interests you in any way, I would love for you to come join us inside of that group. I'm also on Instagram market, like a boss. So I share some truth bombs there as well. And I also do like a weekly fails threads talking about the things that I failed at that week, because I think failures should be celebrated. So I would love for you to me in either one of those places. [00:28:35] Diane: Amazing. I'll be sure to link both of them up in the show notes. People can find you easily. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. [00:28:42] Michelle: Thank you for having me. This was a fun conversation.