How To Make Your Own Rules For Instagram With Chris Emmer

Diane: This week's guest is my go to sense talker when I start to get all up in my head about Instagram. Chris Emmer is an Instagram strategist who believes that you make the rules, not the algorithm. So this is not going to be your standard hashtags and posting schedules kind of episode. Hey Chris, welcome to the show. Chris: Hi,Diane When you say lifestyle business, it makes it sound so glamorous. So my lifestyle business is Mindful Social Co and my signature offer is my membership community, which is called Mindful Social Club. In my membership community I support business owners who want to grow their business and gain followers and visibility with their target audience on Instagram, but they also don't want to spend their entire life slouched over their phone scrolling the app or feeling like they're selling their soul to that algorithm. So I really help people find that middle path. Diane: And how has that evolved for you? Cause that's not really where you started. I know things changed when you had your incredibly cute little girl. Chris: Hmm. She is so cute. My business has changed, 360hile degrees since I had my daughter. When I was in the beginning of my business, I'll be completely honest with you. There was no balance. There were no boundaries. It was full hustle mode all the time. And while it might have looked good on the outside and I was making great money, on the inside I was frying out. I didn't think there was another way. And I felt like that was just how it had to be. I was doing at that time one-to-one done for you services for clients. When I became a mother, the entire world flipped upside down, I was forced to slow down. I was forced to sit with myself. I was forced to not tie my productivity or my amount of hustle with my worth. It was so hard and it was the best lesson of my life. In this time I had to get really serious about the way that I was using Instagram, both for my business and for my clients. I had to get really serious about what I wanted to do with my business, because the way that I had been showing up wasn't going to fly anymore. It honestly felt like I had to either find a different way to do it or I had to find a different career path. And luckily I found a different way, which is through the membership community, where I'm able to show up and serve a group of people who I love more than anything. And it's not 100% tied between my time and my income or the amount of people that I can serve. So I'm no longer doing done for you. I take a very, very small fraction of the amount of one to one clients that I used to. And now it's consulting rather than done for you services. So I'm so happy that I have found a different way than I didn't give up. And I'm so grateful for the absolute mic drop moment that was becoming a mother because it taught me lessons I really needed to learn. Diane: had you prepared for that? Or was that like, Oh, okay. Now I have a kid now I have to change everything. Chris: I had no clue it. Diane, if I'm honest with you, my water broke at two in the morning, and I remember packing my bag for the hospital and almost grabbing my laptop. Diane: NO Chris: I didn't because my husband gave me side eye, but in the back of my head, I thought, well, if the baby's just sleeping, I could pop on my computer and get some work done. I had absolutely no idea what I was in for. Diane: that's hilarious. I'm picturing you in labor. Like just try to like get up one last Instagram post for the day. Chris: that is horrible. Diane: so let's talk a little about what's involved in your membership. What is your. makeup of course type content versus you showing up on your membership? Chris: Yeah, my membership has really evolved so much since the very beginning. and it's evolved because of feedback that I've asked for from my members along the way. And it's really helped me hone in on what it is. That I offered to them and also get specific with myself about, from a lifestyle perspective, what is working and what is not working. So where I've landed that I am in love with now is that each Wednesday of the month I show up live and I'm ready to serve them, whether that is through coworking, which we do two times a week. Or we do office hours once a month and we do, a month play, live strategy session as well. So I love to be able to show up, live connects with my people. There's nothing I love more than being in community. And there's nothing that compares to the magic that comes from doing the work together. I love being able to show up, live and work with them outside of our live times together. Yes, I'm doing backend stuff. I'm doing research, putting together strategy reports, supporting them in Slack and those sorts of things. But those are a little bit more loosey goosey for me. So I don't need to have childcare five days a week. I'm able to customize my, workflow for my lifestyle, which is beautiful. And I'm so grateful for. Diane: I love how intentional that's been, even though it was kind of forced on you at the beginning, you've allowed that to evolve into, okay. How is this going to fit into my new lifestyle? How do I make this work for me? So let's talk about Instagram working for us. there are a lot of rules, ones I can think of off the top of my head: you need to post every day, more is more, you need to use all the hashtags, don't use the same hashtag or you'll get shadow banned,put the hashtags in the caption, no, put them in the comments, don't edit your posts, et cetera. And so we have built this Instagram machine for our businesses that you are now telling us, well, actually I have some different rules. So, what are these different rules? Chris: The different rules are pour gasoline on your rule book and burn that baby down because you don't work for the algorithm. You work for yourself. You get to make the decisions you're in control. If you feel like you need to adhere to someone else's strategies that weren't created for your lifestyle it's no wonder why you would dread showing up. It's no wonder why you secretly hate Instagram and wish that you could quit it in truth. You're in the driver's seat and you get to make the decisions. Are there pros and cons to those decisions? Absolutely. But your happiness, your health are always number one that comes first. The rest of this stuff is fun and we can make it work for your business. Diane: So I'm going to do the, but that I can hear anyone listening to this episode screaming, which is, but, how is that going to get me clients? How is that going to get me engagement? How is me showing up less going to help me with my business? Chris: It works like magic. And just to be totally honest with you, if I didn't have a business, I also would not be on social media. So I just want to say, I feel like you don't need to pretend like you love it in order to find success on Instagram. The way that it works out is that we focus on creating more high quality content, more shareable content, more content that creates the results that you're looking for. We've always on quality instead of quantity. When you're posting more frequently, there's just a certain amount of watering down that happens. When your posts are mediocre, they won't perform as well for your audience. And there'll be more short-lived. So it might feel like you need to post more frequently when you create more high quality content that your audience loves, that they really want to see, and that they want to organically share with their own audience. Your posts are going to live longer, so you can create higher quality posts, get more juice for the squeeze and not have to show up and be on there as much. Diane: But aren't all the big Instagram people who are getting all the engagement and the followers posting every day? Chris: Are they? Diane: it feels like it. Chris: Does it? I really like to buck up against that belief. A study from 2020 shows that the highest performing brands on Instagram are posting 2.3 times per week. So those are business accounts on Instagram. I hope that when you heard that your shoulders just dropped down and you took a big sigh of relief because. Yes, it's true. That a few years ago, posting every day was something that the algorithm favored even posting multiple times a day was something that got you more visibility. So a lot of people adopted this. The beautiful thing is that that's just not true anymore. So we can take advantage of this. Yeah. And give ourselves a little bit of a break, create better content and not do it as frequently and see even better results than we see when we're busting our butts, trying to post, just filler content or a post to put up a post every single day. Diane: so if we're only posting 2.3 times a week, which I can get behind, I would say that is probably my average at the moment. Does it matter what we're posting? So we've talked about the caption being a more quality posts, but what about the image? Are they rules around the images like faces perform better as a rule? Chris: Yes. So it used to be the case that if you showed a photo of your face, especially a photo where your eyes were connecting with the camera, it would get incredible amounts of engagement. It would exceed all your other posts by a landslide. This is not necessarily the case anymore. we just had a major bomb dropped on our butts a couple of weeks ago when reels came out. Now we're seeing reels performing super well. We're seeing texts, graphics, or unbranded types of content performing really well. But the truth is you don't know what's going to perform really well for your account until you. Let down the rains, you let yourself get imperfect and messy and you just try some different stuff and see how it goes. there's a little bit of getting uncomfortable that you need to do in order to see what really flies. If every single one of your posts is performing about the same. That's a pretty good indicator that you need to mix it up a little bit more, try some different. Graphics try some different caption types, mix up your types of content. See what performs really well with your audience. And you can sort of sure analytics to guide your roadmap for your content. Moving forward. For example, I know Diane, we've had funny conversations about this before, because Diane's followers love to see her face. She's got amazing pictures of herself. She's got a really animated face. And my followers do not care about seeing my face at all. When I look at my analysts, I see that my text based posts perform like 10 times better. It gets so much better visibility than photos of my face. So when I found that data, when I was doing my analytics review is sort of set me free where I. No longer felt like I had to do what every other Instagram teacher was doing or what all the people who are going viral and had huge accounts were doing. And I could just do more of what felt really good for me. Diane: I definitely, I think because none of my faces are ever just means smiling at the camera. It works for me in like a scroll stopping thing, which then gets people to engage. So in case anyone's wondering Hey, how come Diane's face works? It's not because my face is particularly special. It's just because I'm prepared to look like an idiot. In my photos. but what I've been finding, working really well for me recently is, more almost infographic type of posts. So really fun like data-driven or cycle posts or, three things to remember. I find those work really well for saves and for shares. Whereas the face ones tend to work really well for likes and comments. Chris: Yes. Such good data that you have right there. Yeah. The infographic styles performing so well, carousel posts are an incredible opportunity. That works really well. Diane: Yeah. I've been using carousel posts for all of my podcast graphics so that people can get a little sneak peek of the episode without having to leave the platforms. I'm really enjoying that as well, but it has just been a case of Hey, let's see if this works and if it's fun, then if I enjoy it. what do you feel like. The biggest kind of mindset hurdle. You have to jump with your people when they first come to you kind of before they've had that, Oh, I can post less transformation. Chris: Ooh, that's such a good question because there is like an obstacle course of mindset, hurdles to maneuver around when it comes to Instagram. the first one I think, would be that your number of followers is in any way tied to your business success. Because it's not your amount of followers doesn't pay your bills. You don't need 10,000 followers. You don't need a hundred thousand followers. Think of every single follower as a real person, because they actually are. say you have 50 followers, if you imagined walking into a room of 50 people and having to give a speech, how would you feel? I personally would pee my pants a little bit. So we tend to think my number is just 50 people. Oh, I have no audience. When in reality, 50 people is a lot of people and if every single one of them or even 50% of your audience signed up for your offer, What would that look like for your business? That sounds like a success to me. Diane: Yeah, I think it's so easy to get caught up in that numbers game. if you've got 50 people and they all engage with you, they're all going to see your stuff. If you've got 10,000 people, if they're not engaging with you, actually the worse it is for your account. Chris: it's just goes to show how much your, vanity metrics don't really matter that much. In fact, by having less followers, you can increase your engagement rate and therefore your visibility. Diane: So if I'm only showing up 2.3 times a week on, can tell our love stat 2.3 times a week on my feet. I need, do I need to show up every day on my stories Chris: No. Diane: do I need to be doing reels? what do I need to do to compensate? Chris: To compensate. So yes, you certainly can be showing up on stories more frequently. I believe the stat was, and I'd have to double check this because I can't remember off the top of my head. I believe it was that the top performing brands were on stories. I think it was like between four and five times per week. Again, I hope that when I said that your shoulders dropped down, you took a big breath and exhale. Who, because if you're not already, this means that you should be taking your weekends fully off of it. Instagram for everyone in my membership, I recommend deleting the app off your phone completely for the weekend so that you can't consume content. You can't scroll, you can't post you can't story. You can't do anything. And I find that by giving yourself two days fully off. And you're allowing your brain to have a dopamine detox, to reset and enjoy. What's actually important, which is your life, everything that happens off of screen. And you're also adding to your own longevity. When you come back on Monday, you'll be more refreshed. You'll have more original and creative ideas and you won't hate the outfits. Diane: And I'm seeing more and more people doing that. So that means even if you are posting on the weekend, like chances are your people. Well, aren't there, they're not looking for your content. Chris: Exactly. Totally. And I think we're all getting a lot more mindful about the way that we're showing up. So hopefully our audiences and our business owners stop showing up on weekends. And we can all just have this understanding that we are clocking in during the week. And we can clock out on the weekends. Diane: And where do you stand on reel? So they're kind of new, they're kind of fun. They're kind of awkward. I feel like a lot of the business ones are just people pointing. I haven't dived into it as of recording this but where do you stand on that? Is it a gimmicky engagement thing or is it an opportunity to get clients or just to get attention? Chris: I think that reels are here to stay. I think that if you haven't yet, it's time to dip your little toe into reels to again, get uncomfortable, be okay with being imperfect and messy because in truth, none of us are perfect at making reels yet. I would also invite you to consider that you can put your own flavor on it, acting silly or, pointing at words or doing a little dance is uncomfortable for you. You don't need to do it. You can think of your own way. That feels right in your gut and is aligned with your personality type to show up on rails. Also consider that you don't have to think of the newest, most creative right idea that you've never put out there before. For reals, you can go back into your existing content and just reformat it. So we're having the same message, but just packaging it in a different vehicle to help it get to a new audience members, realists are awesome for attracting a new audience. And so many people are really focused on wanting that growth on Instagram or oil. You want growth on Instagram reels are an awesome opportunity for it. When it comes to Instagram stories that you could put up the most incredible mindblowing story that you've ever created. And still only about 2% of your audience is going to see it. Those people are going to be your most engaged, your people who love your content the most, you probably talked to them on the regular. It's it doesn't have an opportunity to go viral people. Can't share your stories. Reels on the other hand are super shareable, so they can be 15 or 30 seconds. People can watch them soak up the content and then they can share them to their stories because of this. It's really easy to bring in a new audience with reels. Whereas with other types of content, it's a little bit harder to grab new people. remember when Instagram stories started and we were all like, no way, I am not going to do this and look at us now. And it started happening again. So it's time to embrace change to get into perfect reels are here and they're evolving the way that users are engaging with Instagram, which in turn is adapting the algorithm. So reels are getting more reach than regular posts right now. Does that mean you need to throw your whole strategy in the garbage and only post-sales absolutely not. Does that mean you even need to do a reel every single week? No way. But consider adding one or two into your strategy. And like we talked about before, just see how it flies Diane: so I guess we're all off to do our first or latest, real, depending. Yeah. On the stage everyone's at. But before we finish up, I always have two questions to ask my guests. the first one is what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? What's a hard, no for you. Chris: My number one lifestyle boundary for my business. Not surprisingly is not being on social media or on my phone at all after 7:00 PM and not being on social media at all on the weekends. Diane: That's impressive, I manage about a day. Normally I'm not on Instagram, on a Sunday, but. A hard cutoff at the end of the day. And a hard, no on a weekend is an impressive commitment. Chris: you can set downtime and app limits on your iPhone and then it will enforce it for you. Without that I would be. Just in the app constantly. So my iPhone really keeps me on track with that. Diane: I feel like I would just put the postcode in. Chris: And, you know, it's like sometimes if it's just fun to sit on your couch and watch reality TV and scroll your feed, there's nothing wrong with that. If you're in there and you're having fun go, man, go it's the times when you don't realize that you're sliding into the app and three hours go by and you don't know what's happened, but you're on the real Housewives of Dallas's Instagram page. Those are the times that we got to kind of check ours. And take responsibility for our own screen time and app usage. Diane: I probably am more conscious of when I use it during the day than I am about like a hard limit. So I definitely am one of those people who tries not to get all up in it. Until I'm actually posting that day or til I've at least got some stuff done in the morning. So you don't rabbit hole into somebody else's life, somebody else's launch, Chris: So true Diane: my second question, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've got as a lifestyle entrepreneur? Chris: that you have to show up on social media every day in order to stay relevant with your audience. Diane: I mean, that's just a super easy question for you. Chris: That is a super easy button for me. Can you tell that one kind of grinds my gears? Diane: I think I don't need you to elaborate on that as we have an entire episode around why you don't believe in that, but is there anything you would like to add that you haven't got to get off your chest in the episode on that topic? Chris: The only thing that I would add to it is that in order to see results, you need to be showing up consistently for a certain amount of time. It's a long game, not a short game. So if you are doing this crazy strategy that is over exerting you, or you're spending more time on your phone than you'd like, chances are you won't stick to it or stick around long enough in order to get to the period where you see the results you deserve to get to the point where you see the results of the hard work that you're putting in. This is why I'm such an advocate. For finding a way that feels a little bit better so that you can stay in it long enough to get the fun part, to start seeing the conversions that you want to see. Diane: Awesome, Chris, this has been so helpful. Thank you so much. Where is the best place I assume on the ground for people to connect with you? If they want to continue this conversation, Chris: You assumed correctly. Find me on Instagram at mindful social co shoot me a DM. And just let me know that you came from Diane's podcast and I can't wait to connect with you. Diane: definitely go and check her Instagram art. She does Instagram stories, which he gets into ridiculously cold water and every time I watch it, I'm like, Chris: Winter is coming. We have cold Michigan winners, so Diane: I'm so disappointed in you. You've started it now. I feel like you have to continue it. Chris: No burn that real book. Diane: Awesome. Thank you so much, Chris. Chris: Thank you, Diane.