How To Make Workflows Work For You With Lanie Lamarre

TRANSCRIPT AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED [00:00:00] Diane: Hey, Hey, today's guest Lanie Lamar is a workflow genius. And her air table basis live in certain corners of my own business. She's all about eliminating overwhelm and creation creep in your business using workflows and data. So you know that I'm about to nerd out. Hey Laney, welcome to the show. [00:00:16] Lanie: Nerds unite today. [00:00:18] Diane: So let's start with a bit about your business journey. How did you become a business nerd? [00:00:23] Lanie: I think part of it just starts with being born a nerd. Right. I was doing I was working as a program coordinator, so I had a lot of project management background. We start dabbling into the online world. You discovered there's a whole world out there of people who are working online and doing all this stuff online. And I definitely got sucked into it in the most you know, like the, the. The fly to that zapper thing. That that was me. Oh my gosh. Look at all this stuff. And there's potential to learn everything you would ever want to learn. So, I did exactly that, but because my background and because of the nature of the people that I was talking to in the online world, a lot of them were not super systems oriented. They're very ideas oriented. Let's create the things. Let's do the things let's launch the things. Okay. And then let's become completely overwhelmed by all the things that we have going on. And usually it just comes down to, you need to take a step back and you got to put those systems in place. So I really became known in my earlier days I had Ms. GST was my my moniker, if you will. And. It was all workflows and systems and process maps and things. So it was just detail. How, how do you get things done? What assets do you need to make those things happen? And what you assume learn is when you start putting systems in place for people. Was great, but then they're like, okay, but now this is broken. We, I don't really know what's broken and I'm not sure where I should be putting my time. And so I started delving much deeper into the project management aspect of it in the data part of it, because. Knowing where your results are coming from is part of the whole system, right? You can't just be doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. You really want to see what is happening at the end of that road so that you can capitalize on what's working so that you can do more of that and ditch the stuff that really isn't working. So you get stop wasting your time with it. So, I, I, I sort of combined it all into being sort of, of business or performance visualization, kind of medium, where I like to show you your projects and way that you can like see it and you can do something about it and move the stuff around. Or if it's your data being able to. Really like with maps where it's like landing pages, this is how many people are coming to it. This is how many people are going to the checkout. What's the difference? Where are we losing people? You know, just being able to visualize those kinds of things, which brings us back sort of full circle to the workflows, which is really just. When you are mapping out a system, what are all the steps in the assets and the things that have to happen for your magic to happen? [00:02:57] Diane: I always say to people, if they're explaining a workflow to me, Don't feel put off if I'm looking like up into the side, because I'm actually just mentally drawing the system as you're talking to me. And they look at me like I've just grown horns and spotted wings. I didn't realize that this wasn't something everybody could do until I left corporate. Let's clarify though. Workflow system. Process. I think a lot of people use a lot of things interchangeably, so let's get really clear on what is the difference between those things. [00:03:28] Lanie: When I'm talking about a system or process Systems will typically be something that that you're putting into place that involves tech or involved. I keep saying assets, but you know, tools like your convert kit for your email marketing service or your lead pages for your landing pages or all those little assets that you have that are factors in you being able to put the steps together to be able to. Put that marketing strategy into place. So a system is all the things that make those things work and connect in a way that you get that end result that you want, that you get to be able to launch that marketing campaign. For instance, a process is all the things that happen that have to be accounted for. That use all of those tools. So they're similar and they are used interchangeably, but a system would really be going over, you know, the how of, of all the things that happen. Whereas the process is the, the what what are all the things that need to be accounted for? So you can have systems with. I use convert kit, as an example, let's, let's continue using that. You integrate that into your system. But if you, you can swap out convert kit for, let's say, active campaign, another email marketing service. It's going to change how you're doing things though, because how those tools work will change the flow of, of the things that need to be put into place. So really there's a big, long, complicated way of saying. You really just need to be able to have an idea of what you're putting together and making sure that they're all connected so that if you have to replace one part of it, you're able to see what part of it is going to be replaced. And when we're talking about a workflow, it's really just a process map. It's like a mapping out of all of those things that have to happen and all of those assets that are factoring into it. But and, and how those tools factor into it. So. Someone signs up to your email list and then the automated email gets sent, and then they're redirected to that landing page for something, all those little steps are accounted for in a workflow. It's almost like, You know, when you would have the Disney singalong things, when you were a kid, maybe they still, I haven't seen Disney stuff in a long time, but when you have the sing along stuff, there's like the bouncing ball and it tells you how to stay on the note with the multiple bounces on the same note is kind of the same thing with a workflow where you can, you could essentially just follow along and bounce along to each step. Oh, I've done this boom, move on to the next thing. Oh, I've done this boom, move on to the next thing. And so that's how your workflow, how does, how you follow a work? [00:06:14] Diane: Or like the adult version of that karaoke [00:06:18] Lanie: Ah, that's true. [00:06:20] Diane: We were joking beforehand that we get to a point that where our business starts to represent our teenage bedrooms. There's piles of stuff everywhere. We know exactly where everything is, but we also don't know why we have 17 black t-shirts. Which black t-shirt do I pull out and go, okay, this needs to become more of a workflow. I need to be able to visualize what I'm doing with this black t-shirt. Where would you start? [00:06:43] Lanie: I love when w when you start with, like, if you really want to start mapping out what your business looks like, I really do. Just looking at what your offers are. Don't look at the processes or the tools or any of this stuff. Just look at your offers, including your free offers, your paid and your free offers and see how all of those are connected and just like, get the coloring pencils out, do the, you know, draw it out in a way where you can see, okay. So these free offers that I have to offer they relate to this paid offer and this paid offer is. Something that gets upgraded into this paid offer. When you can actually map out your business that way, it makes it very easy to see which black t-shirt needs to be thrown out, you know, because you see the things that you're offering that maybe he just don't need to be including into your offers anymore. Maybe it's time to retire that one often maybe some to retire that offer because it doesn't really fit into the big picture of things. And nothing becomes more evident about not fitting into the holistic of it. And when you're drawing things with, on a paper with arrows and seeing how they're all connected, [00:07:55] Diane: I attempted this recently. I had two areas. Like you said, it becomes really clear where you need some time, because I had one area where there was just like a couple of options. They didn't even go anywhere. [00:08:06] Lanie: Right. And you don't know till you look, and this is not just about drawing them down, it's, you know, looking through your systems and seeing, okay, well, what is there listed here? It's kind of like the same deal as when you do go shopping and they say, okay, so you go shopping for new black t-shirts and you come home. And when you put them in your closet, you've got to get rid of as many black t-shirts as you had sort of thing. The reason being clutter just grows and the same thing's going to happen to your kids. [00:08:33] Diane: the cupboards and let's pull it all out. [00:08:35] Lanie: it Spark joy? [00:08:37] Diane: Does it spark joy? [00:08:38] Lanie: it out [00:08:40] Diane: Yeah, I'm not sure we want to go with that approach in our business. Maybe we could go with, does it spark money? Does it spark customers? Does it spark ROI? [00:08:52] Lanie: Is it, it stick to everything else? [00:08:56] Diane: Or like, would you just be embarrassed if somebody opted into that? Now I had somebody opt into something of mine and it was one of those things that had been there since like I first started, I was mortified. Which is what then prompted the whole. Okay, Let me get started. So I'm pretty sure that the next question we're going to get, you said, get your colored pens out and paper and stuff. What's the tech behind, like, where would you draw? A workflow for a client, cause you know, people are gonna want tech behind it, right. I'm a big Sharpies and paper person, but eventually you want it to be somewhere useful and digital. [00:09:30] Lanie: it be some pens full or useful to digital cameras? My friend, you just pop it up there and it's good to go, but I totally get what you're saying. There's a lot of tech that you can use. You can use something. Sophisticated tech, like do something like Microsoft Vizio or something like that. If you want to get super professional about it, but there's a lot of stuff that you can get for lower price or for free there's lucid chart that you can get. It's a low priced product. I think maybe $10 a month. You can get a. I think it's called an extension, maybe a plugin, but it's within your Google account. And just go to draw.io. And I use this very frequently and because it's just easy to store everything in my Google account. And You can it's, it's the same sort of concept as something like Vizio or like lucid chart, where you have all the fun, little graphics and you can search for even more fun graphics. You can put all of those things and Mudge draw.io is what I would recommend for starting point where, you know, it's an easy to use platform and it won't cost you anything. [00:10:32] Diane: I was recently introduced to women's at Cole. Which I really like. It's very straightforward. I think you can add in icons and stuff into it. I'm like an old school. My workflows look like flow charts. You know, they have the shape that goes with the thing. Like, this is a question. This is data. [00:10:50] Lanie: Yes. [00:10:51] Diane: And they're different colors for the different systems that I'm using. So like convert kit is purple. But I found that one pretty simple to use, especially if I am mapping out a new system and I might want to move things around and group them and grab them and shift them which can get very messy with Sharpies. [00:11:07] Lanie: But what is the joy in when it comes to workflows? What maybe, maybe I'm being super nerdy on this, but I really do think it's a really Blake the baseline is there for everybody to meet. Whether you want to draw it on a paper, whether you just want to take cute icons and put arrows between them. Or if you want to get super complicated and start doing Gantt charts built into the flows that have the proper colors and the color coding and the multiple legal papers to fill. Like you can do as much as you want, but you can keep it simple too. There's no excuse for you not to be able to map out your thought, what do you think is going to happen? What pieces do you need to see happen? And just being able to have a visual representation of it, because that's the thing. More online entrepreneurs than not, I think more entrepreneurs period than not to be able to see it, to visualize it, to really have that visual representation in front of you to always refer to is so much better than having all of the factors and things and tasks to check off floating in your brain. This is a very unsafe place. I don't recommend they floating your brain. Just put them on a piece of paper and connect them. [00:12:16] Diane: it's also such a strategic tool that is underused. if you can't draw your customer journey from start to finish, which is what Laney was suggesting at the beginning, like where do your free offers come in? How do they link into paid offers? How do those upgrades other. How are you managing your business's strategy if you don't know that baseline? So I know a lot of people are going to be like, oh, it's the systems. I'm not a systems person. I'll just hire someone to do this. I always want to push back on that thought and be like, you can't bring somebody in. If you don't have a system for them to work with, how are you going to explain to them what to do? If you don't even know what that workflow looks like at a really simple level, you don't need to go. Complete nerds zone with Gantt charts and everything that are now, of course, I'm going to have to add into every workflow that I have cause I'm so excited and color-coded but I think having those basic ideas of what you're trying to achieve with each piece of your business is the kind of thing that you should be spending CEO time on. I saw someone asked today in a Facebook group, like, what do you spend your CEO day doing? I'm like this working out, is this actually working? So let's talk mistakes. Anything people need to be aware of or things that you see go really wrong when people first interact with workflowing their business. [00:13:30] Lanie: We created a [00:13:31] Diane: a word, but here we go. Laney and Diane workflowing. Here we go. [00:13:39] Lanie: It's a little trademark thing on top [00:13:41] Diane: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There'll be a race to who can get the domain after this podcast interview. Let me ask a really long question so that I can do it. while she talks. [00:13:55] Lanie: I'll let you have it. [00:13:56] Diane: Right. Mistakes [00:13:58] Lanie: Oh, mistakes. Right. There was a question in there. I was having so much fun. I forgot. So mistakes, the biggest mistake. And really, I think the only real mistake you can do is just brushing this aside as being something that's not important. Like I said, even if you could start with something very simple, And you map out something very basic, then you can build on it. And by the way, it doesn't have to be you who builds on it, but you do have to create that initial sort of what is in your brain. How do you want to see things happen? Because then when you do decide, ah, I forget about it. I'm just going to hire someone to do this. Great. You have that baseline being like, this is what I want to see happen. Or this is what I think is happening in my business. Whatever path that your CIO, a CEO brain is wanting to bring your business down. You can actually communicate that with what you currently have, what you're currently working with and where you want to go, because that's what you do with your CEO days. It's all about seeing where you are and determining where you want to go and how you're going to get there. Again, you don't have to be the person who draws all the maps in between, but you do have to put your CEO pants on and say, This is where we're starting. This is where we get going with this. And then you can delegate, you can't delegate from the very beginning on this one. You really do have to take the initiative for yourself. [00:15:19] Diane: and I think it's an important area where. You know, entrepreneurs, life things done a certain way, right? we left corporate jobs because we wanted to do stuff our way. If you hire somebody to take over an outcome for you and you're thinking it needs to be done a certain way, you need to be able to communicate that certain way, or they're going to do It their way. And you might not understand what they've done or why they've done it that way. And that's going to be a real uncomfortable situation for everybody to be in. [00:15:43] Lanie: It also sets a precedent to what you're saying. If you create those workflows that you start off with and be. Okay. So what you create, I want, I want you to map it out for me as well, so that any time somebody's integrating or implementing or introducing any of those, I words into your business, into your processes, into your systems, you actually know what's going on. Also when they leave that next person coming. Can know what's going on because you've literally mapped it out. So you're never left in the dark as to what's happening. Like how does this work? It doesn't, you don't have to know how everything's connected, but you do need the tool to find out how to find out how everything is connected. [00:16:23] Diane: I know entrepreneurs like to go for the like, listen, we'll do as a minimum and just record what they do and hope that somebody is going to watch a three hour video of them doing a task multiple times. It's one of my slack pet peeves and entrepreneur land. But if you're not doing anything else, that's fine. Do that. But I think the workflow is the next step from that, that somebody can understand the essence of that process to be like, okay, I understand why I care. [00:16:47] Lanie: And if you've skipped this step, like what are the consequences of the other things? What is the domino effect? What isn't tipping over. If this thing doesn't have. Or if you remove it. [00:16:57] Diane: I think there has been this kind of abdication of responsibility. We've kind of automated some of our CEO. And even though it workflows and systems and processes sound like ticky things, they're actually not, they're like the essence of everything. [00:17:12] Lanie: Maybe it is my nerdy little heart talking, but when you get that brilliant idea for a marketing campaign, isn't it fun to start mapping it out? I feel like most people start writing a to-do list or all the things that they want to see happen and integrate into it. But if you just draw it out as to what the steps are, that's going to happen. You can keep that. Not only can you keep that, but you can optimize that. You can improve that because what you're going to do is that, that next time you run that campaign, you're able to see which parts of it perform best for you, if there's one part of it, that's constantly breaking or you're always having to update or whatever it is, you're able to make a shift in that area. Maybe you can see about shortening. The quiet journey and things like that, but you can't really do that. You can't optimize and improve on those things unless they're jotted down in the first place. So when you're having those brilliant ideas, get the pen and paper out, just start, start drawing. [00:18:07] Diane: especially if you're like me and you're a chronic over-complicate. Nothing will show you how you've overcomplicated something. Then the sheer number of errors on a workflow. And I think also what I like about it is I'm like you, if I get that idea, maybe it is just on-duty souls, everybody DMS. And tell us if it's just us. For me, I can have that idea and I can scribble the workflow really quickly without losing the idea. Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes you have this. Brilliant idea. And you write yourself, a little note, and then you're stuck with the, like a post-it note that reads tomato green Thursday. And you're like, I know this was genius, but I can't remember why. [00:18:44] Lanie: those ideas you get in the shower where you're like, oh, this is so smart. I'll never forget it. I don't even have to write it down. But you were saying earlier, it might be art, nerdy, little hearts that only, who are the only sort of types who can appreciate this. But I'm like, I would put my hand to the fire on this one that that's not true because any time I show. Someone who is, I'm not a numbers person. I hate math. I can't do systems and you show them a dashboard. It's always like, wow, what's that? I want one of those you love the way it looks. You love the use. You get out of it. You just don't want to be the person to put it together. And I get that. I totally get that. I'm certain 100% certain that everyone has an appreciation for those those cues, those being able to see how it all connects. [00:19:37] Diane: and look, I'll support their decision to have somebody come in and build their dashboards for them. Right. Like, no. problem, but I'm not going to support your decision to not know how to draw a workflow of something in your business. Even if like I have friends who they workflows it's, it's texting. Like they'll go person opt in and they just write the word opt in and then they draw an arrow to like convert kit, email one, and then draws an arrow. Right? Like that's totally fine. It doesn't have to be. Special shapes and color coding, which is my jam or Gantt charts and whatever other like freaky stuff is going on. And Laney's workflows, you know, it can be really simple. [00:20:15] Lanie: I think it's called the WorkFlowy where it's actually just like bullet points and you can indent your bullet points. I've seen people do workflows on those too. And I think those are great because you can expand on, for instance, what are you doing in convert kit? What is the sequence of, you know, people opting in and then the email being sent, you can always have those indented and build on those. And then you can also not have to look at all the things, just be. Email sequence. And then you don't look at all the steps because you, you, you hid that from the view, but really basic and build things out as you go. [00:20:50] Diane: And you could be the five main bullets. That is your workflow that says like opt in, goes to convert kit Satan's emails, show sales page. You could have those bullets and then give it to somebody else to do all of the indented bullets And the step-by-step and the house and the [00:21:06] Lanie: And [00:21:07] Diane: and the linking [00:21:07] Lanie: your link, the video that shows how exactly you do it and all the things, and you have your processes in place. You, you, you have something. [00:21:15] Diane: I think we'd given everybody like way more ideas on workflows and they probably ever wanted in their lives. All the other systems people are like, oh, this is so good. Well, the non-system people are like, you guys need to get lives big time. [00:21:28] Lanie: I, I really, truly in my heart though. I don't believe that because when you show them how it's all connected, they're always impressed. [00:21:37] Diane: Very good segue over to how can we show them more workflow is that they can use in their business. [00:21:43] Lanie: Well, I am hosting an event called, oh, my growth live because I have my podcast called oh, my growth. And I wanted to do sort of alive version of getting the brilliant minds that I know and getting those genius business pals sharing, not slideshows. You know, the, what you can implement. I really wanted these to be workshop-based, let's implement these things. Let's see some results out of the work that we're doing out of the marketing campaigns we're putting into place. And to sort of put an exclamation mark on it. I wanted workflows for each one of these strategies so that when you. How to put something in place, a strategy in place, a marketing campaign in place, you actually have those points of, oh, and then you do this, and then you do that. And being able to keep those handy so that when you do implement your marketing strategies, You know, watching informative videos. When you do implement these marketing strategies into your business, then you're able to just follow along with the workflows and improve, or you don't have to follow along with the workflows. You can easily delegate it because you know what the steps are, you see what they are and being like, Hey, pass that along to your VA or to your OEM. This is what I want you to do, put it in place. And so, those are going to be available. When you sign up to oh, my growth live. So every time there is a, a workshop being presented. The workflow that goes along with that workshop will be available at that time. So, it's free. It's ruling from October 5th through seventh, and I would love to see you guys there because I will be in the chat and I would love, love, love for you to talk to me in the chat. Tell me what you do what your zone of genius. What type of marketing campaigns, you want to see put into a workflow so that you don't have to do it next time. I can do it for you during our next run of this event, but we have some really awesome topics. I'm really impressed with the lineup of speakers. And I think you might be hard pressed to find something that we don't have covered it. We've got a lot of like a wide range of topics, of different ways that you can market yourself and, and have those, my growth moments. In, in the workshops that we're presenting. So I'm super excited, which is why I'm rambling. I'm really stoked about this lineup. [00:24:02] Diane: it is really good. I am very honored to be one of the speakers and I have seen all the workflows and They are very good. I'm going to link in the show notes, how you can sign up how you can get all of that. Goodness. So excited, I'm a nerd so hard for those two days. So to finish up, I have two questions that I'll ask. The first one is, what is your number one lifestyle boundary for your business? [00:24:26] Lanie: Oh man, I have, this is sort of a new one. But I've been very good about it for, I would say the last year. But I've made it such that notifications can't come onto my phone after a certain time or before a certain time. It means that sometimes I forget to check on say slack, if I have a message in there, and maybe I'm a couple of days late, but if it's actually very urgent, they have other ways of reaching me the people who would be messaging me on slack. So you tend to get into your own way with these sorts of things being like, oh, but I won't get the notification. And then what if I forget. I promise you, these things work themselves out. So, putting those boundaries around the energy I'm putting out and, and during which timelines is really important, [00:25:12] Diane: Yeah, I definitely have a very strict notification on my phone after years of corporate blackberries pinging at all hours of The night [00:25:21] Lanie: The phone even stays in another room, you know, for, at a certain period of time it's done. [00:25:27] Diane: Haven't gone that far. I need to watch tech talk before bed, come on and be crazy. I've turned off notifications. Geez. Okay. Finally, what is the worst piece of cookie cutter advice you've been given in your business journey? [00:25:39] Lanie: I, this is also a sort of really. I don't want to say development, but a realization when I started. In the online world. I I put myself in clients' shoes. I used to think, you know, if I were someone else, what would I like to receive? What would, what kind of client journey would I like to get? What kind of pitcher promotion would I like to see? How would I like to see a package? What type of emails would I like to see what I like this email? So that was how I figured things out for myself in the beginning. And then as I started growing, I started. You know, learning more from professionals and from experts and things like that. And I started ignoring that voice of, Hey, what do I like? What would I enjoy? And I started replacing it with what I'm supposed to do, what I should do. And. My numbers started suffering for it, which is the opposite of what all of the sales pages promise you. I'm not saying that I haven't learned a lot and that a lot of it isn't useful. Of course it is. But when I stopped listening to that little voice telling me. I enjoy that, that started everything else, sort of, I don't want to say it fell apart, but I just stopped. I stopped enjoying doing the work as much, and I stopped putting out content that other people enjoyed. So, the cookie cutter advice of, you know, These are the strategies that you have to implement. And th these are the way the sales pages need to be, and this is how your emails have to be. I kind of wish they hadn't listened to that advice so hard, but then again, it was one of those hard learned lessons that I I realized. It is very Dorothy wizard of Oz where it's like you had it in you all along. So the more I go back to what was always within me all along with the fun emails and the jokey kind of tone that was working much better for me, the better things are not just for my clients and my audience, but for me, I enjoy it so much more. [00:27:38] Diane: Yeah, We all have to go. Transition thing where we think everybody else knows more than we know, and our way couldn't possibly work, even though all the people that you're following all did something different and that's how they became known for it. This has been such a fun conversation like, oh, we've just nerded so hard. Where's the best place for people to find you on the socials so that they can say hi, I know that people are going to want to chat to you [00:28:02] Lanie: For sure you can. Probably the best place would be Instagram. I've taken a little bit of a social media break over the summer, enjoying, you know, cottages and waterfronts and you know, life, which is why we all get into this in the first place. So it's, it's fun to actually practice what I preach. But over on the Instagrams, right? O M G R O w T H. That's all my growth with the OMG. Cheekiness to it. So, O M G R O w T H on Instagram. [00:28:32] Diane: Awesome. I'll be sure to link that as well. Thank you again. This has been absolute blast. [00:28:37] Lanie: So much fun. Thank you, Diane.